Quote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:02 pmQuote from: Jim on 04/23/2018 01:45 pmQuote from: testguy on 04/22/2018 02:08 amI guess the point of this thread wasn't made clear. I was suggesting that if BFR/S's schedule held, than the period between the first cargo flights and manned missions to Mars would be a good time to shake down BFS with manned missions to the moon. If SpaceX is planning to do that anyway then is it time for NASA to get on board now. The questions are:1. Is it a good idea?NoBecause... getting NASA on board is the best way to slow it down?"Is it time for NASA to buy tickets?"A: Yes.... to buy, or consider buying tickets. Not "to get involved".When ready, SX should do manned practice with SX personnel (test pilots / engineers and trainee staff for Mars). Once flight reliability, and vehicle reports satisfy NASA, they can literally buy tickets. And on those missions they will be largely passengers to the destination. That will not slow SX much. They can talk about x successful missions, but SX will not have lists of criteria from NASA, etc.However there could be a conversation "do you think you will have the BFS flying humans to the moon by 2022?" "at what price?" etc. "At that price pencil us in for y missions".
Quote from: Jim on 04/23/2018 01:45 pmQuote from: testguy on 04/22/2018 02:08 amI guess the point of this thread wasn't made clear. I was suggesting that if BFR/S's schedule held, than the period between the first cargo flights and manned missions to Mars would be a good time to shake down BFS with manned missions to the moon. If SpaceX is planning to do that anyway then is it time for NASA to get on board now. The questions are:1. Is it a good idea?NoBecause... getting NASA on board is the best way to slow it down?
Quote from: testguy on 04/22/2018 02:08 amI guess the point of this thread wasn't made clear. I was suggesting that if BFR/S's schedule held, than the period between the first cargo flights and manned missions to Mars would be a good time to shake down BFS with manned missions to the moon. If SpaceX is planning to do that anyway then is it time for NASA to get on board now. The questions are:1. Is it a good idea?No
I guess the point of this thread wasn't made clear. I was suggesting that if BFR/S's schedule held, than the period between the first cargo flights and manned missions to Mars would be a good time to shake down BFS with manned missions to the moon. If SpaceX is planning to do that anyway then is it time for NASA to get on board now. The questions are:1. Is it a good idea?
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists...
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:
Quote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists...'Err, our astronauts all just resigned, what do we do now?'.
Quote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Quote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:43 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...
Quote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:45 pmQuote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:43 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...I'm not talking about cosmonauts...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism
Quote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:46 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:45 pmQuote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:43 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...I'm not talking about cosmonauts...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourismRemember the fracas NASA raised tourism about it and not wanting tourists to enter US side of Station?
Quote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:49 pmQuote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:46 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:45 pmQuote from: envy887 on 04/23/2018 02:43 pmQuote from: Rocket Science on 04/23/2018 02:35 pmNASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...Edit:They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...I'm not talking about cosmonauts...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourismRemember the fracas NASA raised tourism about it and not wanting tourists to enter US side of Station?They might not be happy about it, but they would do it if the alternative was sitting on the ground.
It is not time yet. Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services. By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational. This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things. SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.
Quote from: spacenut on 04/23/2018 03:41 pmIt is not time yet. Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services. By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational. This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things. SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars. I agree with you except for timing. A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side. If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up. iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration.
Quote from: testguy on 04/23/2018 03:48 pmQuote from: spacenut on 04/23/2018 03:41 pmIt is not time yet. Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services. By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational. This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things. SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars. I agree with you except for timing. A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side. If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up. iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.
Quote from: Jim on 04/23/2018 04:03 pmQuote from: testguy on 04/23/2018 03:48 pmQuote from: spacenut on 04/23/2018 03:41 pmIt is not time yet. Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services. By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational. This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things. SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars. I agree with you except for timing. A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side. If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up. iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard. NASA has to admit SpaceX has a proven capability before NASA gets onboard. Or, enough Congress members have to say so, or for that matter, okay.Either way.
Leadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll. Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?
Quote from: testguy on 04/23/2018 04:53 pmLeadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll. Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?Again, no. SpaceX has to prove the vehicle first. This isn't like Falcon 9 and Dragon. This is too far outside the box to spend taxpayer's money on.You can't spend tax money on unproven services.