Author Topic: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?  (Read 31661 times)

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #40 on: 04/23/2018 02:34 pm »
I guess the point of this thread wasn't made clear.  I was suggesting that if BFR/S's schedule held, than the period between the first cargo flights and manned missions to Mars would be a good time to shake down BFS with manned missions to the moon.  If SpaceX is planning to do that anyway then is it time for NASA to get on board now.  The questions are:
1.  Is it a good idea?
No
Because... getting NASA on board is the best way to slow it down?
"Is it time for NASA to buy tickets?"
A: Yes.... to buy, or consider buying tickets. Not "to get involved".

When ready, SX should do manned practice with SX personnel (test pilots / engineers and trainee staff for Mars). Once flight reliability, and vehicle reports satisfy NASA, they can literally buy tickets. And on those missions they will be largely passengers to the destination. That will not slow SX much. They can talk about x successful missions, but SX will not have lists of criteria from NASA, etc.

However there could be a conversation "do you think you will have the BFS flying humans to the moon by 2022?" "at what price?" etc. "At that price pencil us in for y missions".

NASA isn't going to let SpaceX send crew to the Moon or Mars without NASA astronauts aboard, if they can help it.

And NASA doesn't really have a budget for "pencil us in for a flight" that is going to cost hundreds of millions. They can write up a proposal for using an anticipated commercial capability, then add it to a budget request and try to get Congress to pay for it.

But that will take years and the first step if to get NASA higher-ups to even admit that BFR is happening. Which IMO they won't do until it actually flies.

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #41 on: 04/23/2018 02:35 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:
« Last Edit: 04/23/2018 02:40 pm by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline speedevil

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4406
  • Fife
  • Liked: 2762
  • Likes Given: 3369
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #42 on: 04/23/2018 02:40 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists...

'Err, our astronauts all just resigned, what do we do now?'.


Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #43 on: 04/23/2018 02:43 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #44 on: 04/23/2018 02:43 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists...

'Err, our astronauts all just resigned, what do we do now?'.
Keep running sims and spend the down time at the beach house...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #45 on: 04/23/2018 02:45 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #46 on: 04/23/2018 02:46 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...

I'm not talking about cosmonauts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #47 on: 04/23/2018 02:49 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...

I'm not talking about cosmonauts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism
Remember the fracas NASA raised tourism about it and not wanting tourists to enter US side of Station?
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #48 on: 04/23/2018 02:57 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...

I'm not talking about cosmonauts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism
Remember the fracas NASA raised tourism about it and not wanting tourists to enter US side of Station?

They might not be happy about it, but they would do it if the alternative was sitting on the ground.

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #49 on: 04/23/2018 03:00 pm »
NASA as it exists today with it's own astronaut corps is not about to send their personnel to sit "elbow to elbow" with a bunch of space tourists... Just to add: I'm not addressing you above envy or what you posted...
Edit:

They already do (or have) on ISS. Why not on deep space flights?
Because cosmonauts are from their same "peer group"...

I'm not talking about cosmonauts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism
Remember the fracas NASA raised tourism about it and not wanting tourists to enter US side of Station?

They might not be happy about it, but they would do it if the alternative was sitting on the ground.
To quote myself "NASA as it exists today"... There would have to be a radical change in the agency and its mandate.
« Last Edit: 04/23/2018 03:01 pm by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 2587
  • Likes Given: 2895
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #50 on: 04/23/2018 03:41 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars. 

Offline testguy

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Clifton, Virginia
  • Liked: 625
  • Likes Given: 599
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #51 on: 04/23/2018 03:48 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. 

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #52 on: 04/23/2018 03:53 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration.
But unfortunately the "Same old Congress"... Stay tuned to this channel!
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #53 on: 04/23/2018 04:03 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. 

no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard. 

Offline tdperk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
  • Liked: 152
  • Likes Given: 95
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #54 on: 04/23/2018 04:26 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. 

no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.

NASA has to admit SpaceX has a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.  Or, enough Congress members have to say so, or for that matter, okay.

Either way.

Offline testguy

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 607
  • Clifton, Virginia
  • Liked: 625
  • Likes Given: 599
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #55 on: 04/23/2018 04:53 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. 

no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.

NASA has to admit SpaceX has a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.  Or, enough Congress members
have to say so, or for that matter, okay.

Either way.
Leadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll.  Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?
« Last Edit: 04/23/2018 05:07 pm by testguy »

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #56 on: 04/23/2018 05:01 pm »
It is not time yet.  Once they get BFR/BFS operational, then they need to contract out all launch services.  By then, New Glenn, Vulcan w/ACES, and NGL OmegA will also be operational.  This gives NASA more choices and more money to actually spend on "in space" things.  SLS will become obsolete due to costs, money could be spent more wisely on the moon and Mars.

I agree with you except for timing.  A blind man should be able to see the road map ahead on the commercial side.  If you wait for the road map to play out before changing. You are playing catch up.  iMHO now is the time for a new vision at NASA especially with a new administrator and new administration. 

no, Spacex has to have a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.

NASA has to admit SpaceX has a proven capability before NASA gets onboard.  Or, enough Congress members have to say so, or for that matter, okay.

Either way.
Or both...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #57 on: 04/23/2018 05:20 pm »

Leadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll.  Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?

Again, no.  SpaceX has to prove the vehicle first.  This isn't like Falcon 9 and Dragon.  This is too far outside the box to spend taxpayer's money on.

You can't spend tax money on unproven services.
« Last Edit: 04/23/2018 05:22 pm by Jim »

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12096
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18201
  • Likes Given: 12162
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #58 on: 04/23/2018 05:42 pm »

Leadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll.  Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?

Again, no.  SpaceX has to prove the vehicle first.  This isn't like Falcon 9 and Dragon.  This is too far outside the box to spend taxpayer's money on.

You can't spend tax money on unproven services.


Jim is correct on this one. NASA will not even consider flying on BFR/BFS until the system has proven itself and is fully operational. Not until then will NASA consider doing away with SLS and Orion. And even then you can expect certain folks in US Congress to want to keep SLS and Orion as "independent capabilities" (aka pork).

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Time for NASA to buy Tickets?
« Reply #59 on: 04/23/2018 05:56 pm »

Leadership provides a vision and then convinces others to follow. If an administrator cannot do that he should not be in that roll.  Congress can get onboard if they are shown it is in their interest. Selling your vision is part of leadership. Any NASA folks want to express an opinion?

Again, no.  SpaceX has to prove the vehicle first.  This isn't like Falcon 9 and Dragon.  This is too far outside the box to spend taxpayer's money on.

You can't spend tax money on unproven services.

Unless said unproven services are managed by NASA, e.g. SLS, Orion, JWST, and many others. Then it's fine (encouraged, even) to spend lots of taxpayers money on them.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1