Author Topic: What diameter could an enlarged fairing for the New Glenn be?  (Read 5543 times)

Offline Tywin

10 meters maybe?

« Last Edit: 10/11/2022 04:51 am by Tywin »
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Offline Asteroza

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NG hammerhead fairing?

Offline Hamish.Student

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Perhaps the focus should be on getting BO to orbit first, before we start proposing new fairing designs.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Perhaps the focus should be on getting BO to orbit first, before we start proposing new fairing designs.

What, NSF members not discussing how to make it bigger, better or faster?! Not going to happen. :-)
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Offline baldusi

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10 meters maybe?
General rule of thumb is 1.67, so about 12m.

Offline jstrotha0975

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9m to match Starship is probably the right size, but could probably go to 10-12m.

Perhaps the focus should be on getting BO to orbit first, before we start proposing new fairing designs.

Ah yes, because our discussion on this online forum could really distract Blue Origin's engineers!
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Offline Tywin

Coincidence or, maybe Sierra is thinking in a bigger fairing for the New Glenn?

« Last Edit: 02/21/2024 12:33 am by Tywin »
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Offline Stan-1967

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I've played with the thought of enlarged fairings on other threads for other rockets. 

A New Glenn with a 12m fairing, or that other Big Frikkin Rocket down in Texas with a 15m fairing would both be useful tools for very large space based infrastructure that needs to be delivered in a single launch. 

Seeing that both rockets have a similar fineness ratio, I'll attach the graphic I made and let your mind dress it up in whatever colorful livery you wish.
« Last Edit: 02/21/2024 10:45 pm by Stan-1967 »

Offline chopsticks

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Sorry, but that image makes me uncomfortable. Ha.

NG with an 8 or 9 metre fairing should cover pretty much anything I would think. Not sure why you would need larger than that.

Offline JCRM

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Sorry, but that image makes me uncomfortable. Ha.

NG with an 8 or 9 metre fairing should cover pretty much anything I would think. Not sure why you would need larger than that.

To paraphrase an IT adage: whatever the launch designers give you,the payload designers always piss it away.

Offline meekGee

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Sorry, but that image makes me uncomfortable. Ha.

NG with an 8 or 9 metre fairing should cover pretty much anything I would think. Not sure why you would need larger than that.

To paraphrase an IT adage: whatever the launch designers give you,the payload designers always piss it away.
7 m should be enough for anyone!
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Offline JCRM

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Sorry, but that image makes me uncomfortable. Ha.

NG with an 8 or 9 metre fairing should cover pretty much anything I would think. Not sure why you would need larger than that.

I see what you did there, good Jobs
To paraphrase an IT adage: whatever the launch designers give you,the payload designers always piss it away.
7 m should be enough for anyone!
I see what you did there, good Jobs
« Last Edit: 02/21/2024 09:32 pm by JCRM »

Offline Ike17055

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Perhaps the focus should be on getting BO to orbit first, before we start proposing new fairing designs.

Starship hasn't made it to orbit either, yet the speculation is well into the next few decades...

Offline Jim

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I've played with the though of enlarged fairings on other threads for other rockets. 

A New Glenn with a 12m fairing, or that other Big Frikkin Rocket down in Texas with a 15m fairing would both be useful tools for very large space based infrastructure that needs to be delivered in a single launch. 

Seeing that both rockets have a similar fineness ratio, I'll attach the graphic I made and let your mind dress it up in whatever colorful livery you wish.

Where are the payload factories and how are getting to the launch site?

Offline Stan-1967

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I've played with the though of enlarged fairings on other threads for other rockets. 

A New Glenn with a 12m fairing, or that other Big Frikkin Rocket down in Texas with a 15m fairing would both be useful tools for very large space based infrastructure that needs to be delivered in a single launch. 

Seeing that both rockets have a similar fineness ratio, I'll attach the graphic I made and let your mind dress it up in whatever colorful livery you wish.

Where are the payload factories and how are getting to the launch site?

A discussion of those needed factories is off topic.  The thread topic is an exercise in how large a fairing can be for New Glenn.  It's not what is currently practical & fits within exiting infrastructure.

There are no facilities for an enlarged fairing, & That's why it's an idea only.  If somebody came up with a good enough idea for a payload, it would have to tackle the cost of solving those problems.  I have ideas, but they are off topic.



Offline Jim

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I've played with the though of enlarged fairings on other threads for other rockets. 

A New Glenn with a 12m fairing, or that other Big Frikkin Rocket down in Texas with a 15m fairing would both be useful tools for very large space based infrastructure that needs to be delivered in a single launch. 

Seeing that both rockets have a similar fineness ratio, I'll attach the graphic I made and let your mind dress it up in whatever colorful livery you wish.

Where are the payload factories and how are getting to the launch site?

A discussion of those needed factories is off topic.  The thread topic is an exercise in how large a fairing can be for New Glenn.  It's not what is currently practical & fits within exiting infrastructure.

There are no facilities for an enlarged fairing, & That's why it's an idea only.  If somebody came up with a good enough idea for a payload, it would have to tackle the cost of solving those problems.  I have ideas, but they are off topic.


Ok, how about fairing production and transportation or payload processing facilities?  They have to be addressed first.

Offline Stan-1967

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Ok, how about fairing production and transportation or payload processing facilities?  They have to be addressed first.

This thread asks a specific question, and is not really subject to excessive speculation.  The hard mathematical answer was given upthread. (max fairing diameter is around 1.7X core size)   Everything beyond that is speculative and maybe OT, but all that's really left is to think about is the questions you raised, as well as why such a large & unique fairing may ever be needed? 

You are not known for long detailed posts, but as you are now retired ( Congratulation by the way!!)  Maybe you can give an informed perspective on the difficulties an oversized fairing creates.  I know your background in this area is probably unmatched on this site. 

We likely agree that anything beyond the specifications for the 7m for New Glenn fairing is not possible until the production, transport, & processing are solved for whatever upsized fairing is theoretically proposed for some unique payload.   (and by extension of the logic, the same goes for SS/SH) 

I can't say what possible payloads may demand such an extreme & custom modification, but I would guess that the payload itself will define what production, transport, & processing looks like.  I've been trying to think of an example of this.  A need like this would only be created for a highly specialized application that has no peers in any of the commercial  or military satellite building facilities. This is not for launching something like water to the space station, or more solar panels to some SBSP facility.  It would be for something huge that operates as a single piece of space infrastructure. 

My example of a potentially huge payload would be an asteroid processing facility.   
1.  A project like this will have a significant CAPEX budget, so it is not completely driven by $/kg metrics. 
2.  Assume as a given that some technological or physical demand requires the size beyond existing fairings
3.  To solve the problems you indicated, the value of the payload needs to justify a budget for solving all the steps you listed. Thats a high barrier, but assume it is met and the need exists.
4.  Before going further down the rabbit hole of speculative details, I think you need to build the payload within the vehicle integration capabilities, and know exactly what the limits are.  I'd start with vertical vs. horizontal integration.
5.  Once you know how the vehicle will integrate to the payload, you have to work backwards and create the payload & transport infrastructure for all the points you raised.  Solutions will be unique to the payload & vehicle. 

Offline Zed_Noir

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<snip>
Ok, how about fairing production and transportation or payload processing facilities?  They have to be addressed first.
Will try to answer fairing production and fairing transportation issues.

Just like the original composite Starship. Oversize payload fairings can be build at a large seaside facility and be loaded directly onto a ship or a barge for shipment to the launch facility on the same coast. The same coast as traversing through the Panama canal will likely become more restricted in the future.

Dockside and road transport of vertical oversize fairings could be done with self propel modular transports through routes clear of overhead obstacles. We know something like a Super Heavy booster can be move this way. A 12 meter payload fairing half or third can probably be move in the same way for limited road travel. Provided the weather conditions permits overland transport by self propel modular transports.

Of course the launch pad will have something similar to either SpaceX's launch and integration tower or the vertical integration facility will have some sort of service gantry structure to lift the encapsulated payload on top of a vertical launcher.




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