Author Topic: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats  (Read 121987 times)

Online GWH

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #40 on: 10/24/2021 05:25 pm »
As far as a project for Blue Origin to do in their goal of a Road to Space this is probably one of the better ones. Highly capital intensive with very long horizon. Basically essential for their vision.
I suspect that Boeing will be providing the PPE for the station (or something similar). I've also heard that they're committing quite a bit of capital to achieve this. Especially now that Commercial LEO Development  is now looking at getting fully funded; they're in a good spot to get 1 of the 4 potential CLD contracts.

This combined with the RFI for crew transport would be ideal for Blue given their mission statement and Bezo's funding.  New Glenn will have the lift and volume capacity for solutions that are somewhat unique to Blue (company X excluded).

It seems like the logical next step for everything they have been building to.

Will they show significant progress though? Or will all their work to date have been a clumsy series of dead end projects and awkward pivots?

I'm just too jaded from their history with both New Glenn and HLS to carry high hopes.


PS
PPE would likely be Maxar, they need a costumer for what they developed for Gateway. The image above looks very similar to Gateway PPE.

Online GWH

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #41 on: 10/25/2021 04:17 pm »
PS
PPE would likely be Maxar, they need a costumer for what they developed for Gateway. The image above looks very similar to Gateway PPE.

I could also be very wrong  ::)

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1452667763437318145?s=20

Offline uranium

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #42 on: 10/25/2021 04:31 pm »
https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/25/blue-origin-boeing-and-others-join-sierra-space-to-build-commercial-space-station/

Blue Origin, Boeing and others join Sierra Space to build commercial space station...

[zubenelgenubi: Duplicate threads merged.]
« Last Edit: 10/25/2021 09:45 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #43 on: 10/25/2021 04:32 pm »
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1452673918452572169

Quote
Interesting thing about Orbital Reef: It plans to rely on Starliner for astronaut transport. Since this service is likely to cost about 50-100 percent more than Crew Dragon, that has interesting cost implications compared to what Axiom Space and Nanoracks/Lockheed plan to do.

https://www.orbitalreef.com/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #44 on: 10/25/2021 04:32 pm »

Online GWH

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #45 on: 10/25/2021 04:37 pm »
The modules don't look huge but seem to match up to New Glenn's capabilities.

Based on the 27 foot (8.2m) diameter of LIFE, the other modules scale to about 6.3m in diameter. The PDF states New Glenn is used to launch these. This matches up to the available size in New Glenn.

Quote
Blue Origin Partner, providing vehicle utility core systems, large-diameter modules, and
the reusable heavy-lift New Glenn launch system.


https://blueorigin-static-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/orbital-reef-one-pager.pdf


https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vojtech-Holub/publication/338397991/figure/fig2/AS:848571255517185@1579326561316/Dimensions-of-available-space-within-the-New-Glenns-payload-fairing-Figure-taken.ppm

« Last Edit: 10/25/2021 04:38 pm by GWH »

Offline niwax

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #46 on: 10/25/2021 04:49 pm »
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1452673918452572169

Quote
Interesting thing about Orbital Reef: It plans to rely on Starliner for astronaut transport. Since this service is likely to cost about 50-100 percent more than Crew Dragon, that has interesting cost implications compared to what Axiom Space and Nanoracks/Lockheed plan to do.

https://www.orbitalreef.com/

Blue Origin is getting quicker in their cycle. Used to take us months to go from "This might finally be exciting" to "Oh wait, it's just more pork". Now they do it in hours!

Building a space station and demonstrating real industrial value is a fantastic step. Everything they revealed after that looks like a list of projects in need of further pork to be shuffled across every administrators desk over the next few years.

If you have a billion dollars a year and want a space station, build the frikkin thing! Don't tie it in with five other projects that you don't need or want just so you can write a big enough funding proposal.
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history! (discussion)

Offline ThatOldJanxSpirit

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #47 on: 10/25/2021 05:41 pm »
On a positive note, that Genesis Engineering single person spacecraft is mighty cool.

Online jstrotha0975

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #48 on: 10/25/2021 05:41 pm »
I have my doubts this will be built in their time frame. Has anyone ran the numbers to find the habitable volume? I wonder if it's bigger than the ISS.

Offline Apollo-phill

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #49 on: 10/25/2021 05:45 pm »
 I wrote about " Modular Space Stations " in 1973 and 1975 and " Space Industrialisation"  in 1976 forBIS Spaceflight .

Now,after over 45 years waiting ,  am I going live long enough to see - at last - an American led Modular Space Station eg Orbital Reef ?

I really hope so !

I wish this team all the best of success's with this and will follow very closely developments.and hopefully see it enter into operation .

Phill
UK

Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #50 on: 10/25/2021 05:49 pm »
Ok, let's settle down. Orbital Reef is not using Starliner because it's Pork. It's using Starliner because that is literally the only near term crew transport option. The only alternatives for Blue are working with SpaceX, privately funding the development of Crew Dreamchaser, or building their own crew vehicle. But none of those alternatives are viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Star One

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #51 on: 10/25/2021 05:59 pm »
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1452673918452572169

Quote
Interesting thing about Orbital Reef: It plans to rely on Starliner for astronaut transport. Since this service is likely to cost about 50-100 percent more than Crew Dragon, that has interesting cost implications compared to what Axiom Space and Nanoracks/Lockheed plan to do.

https://www.orbitalreef.com/

Blue Origin is getting quicker in their cycle. Used to take us months to go from "This might finally be exciting" to "Oh wait, it's just more pork". Now they do it in hours!

Building a space station and demonstrating real industrial value is a fantastic step. Everything they revealed after that looks like a list of projects in need of further pork to be shuffled across every administrators desk over the next few years.

If you have a billion dollars a year and want a space station, build the frikkin thing! Don't tie it in with five other projects that you don't need or want just so you can write a big enough funding proposal.
I am as cynical as the next person about this kind of announcement but I am not sure keep declaring it pork adds anything at all to the discussion.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #52 on: 10/25/2021 06:04 pm »
But none of those alternatives are viable...

Why not?  That hefty premium disadvantages them against Axiom, who is willing to use anyone.

Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #53 on: 10/25/2021 06:06 pm »
But none of those alternatives are viable...

Why not?  That hefty premium disadvantages them against Axiom, who is willing to use anyone.

I put a semicolon after the word viable and explained why not.
...viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.

I don't understand where there was room for confusion.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2021 06:07 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #54 on: 10/25/2021 06:13 pm »
But none of those alternatives are viable...

Why not?  That hefty premium disadvantages them against Axiom, who is willing to use anyone.

I put a semicolon after the word viable and explained why not.
...viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.

I don't understand where there was room for confusion.

It was the string of logic that I disagree with.  SpaceX and Blue are not sworn enemies.  SpaceX would happily sell them flights on Dragon or Starship.

And even if they were sworn enemies, like Viasat, Blue should be open to using Dragon.

The power move would have been for Blue to buy into Axiom.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #55 on: 10/25/2021 06:25 pm »
The best thing about this project is that's not totally reliant on Blue. SNC modules can be self contained and can launch on existing 5m fairing LVs. While Boeing maybe preferred crew vehicle, Dragon is still option.





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Offline niwax

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #56 on: 10/25/2021 06:28 pm »
But none of those alternatives are viable...

Why not?  That hefty premium disadvantages them against Axiom, who is willing to use anyone.

I put a semicolon after the word viable and explained why not.
...viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.

I don't understand where there was room for confusion.

I get why Blue might not want to use SpaceX for transportation.

But they are positioning themselves as an innovative disruptor, not a government contractor waiting to be called. So they should either get over their phobia or do it themselves.
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history! (discussion)

Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #57 on: 10/25/2021 06:29 pm »
But none of those alternatives are viable...

Why not?  That hefty premium disadvantages them against Axiom, who is willing to use anyone.

I put a semicolon after the word viable and explained why not.
...viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.

I don't understand where there was room for confusion.

It was the string of logic that I disagree with.  SpaceX and Blue are not sworn enemies.  SpaceX would happily sell them flights on Dragon or Starship.

And even if they were sworn enemies, like Viasat, Blue should be open to using Dragon.

The power move would have been for Blue to buy into Axiom.

Ok well, I'd suggest that in the future you quote the entire part you disagree with, and save us two posts. (And hopefully that didn't come across too snarky.)

And I think you're missing the point here. If Blue and SpaceX were just competitors, then I'd say you were right. But when you look at Blue's actions, it's pretty clear that the management has decided to all but swear a blood feud against SpaceX. And this harsh approach to the competition in the market, seeking not just to out-compete them but to annihilate them, is a big part of what made Amazon successful, so we shouldn't be surprised to see Blue do it too.

With that in mind, peace -er, I mean, SpaceX, was never an option for Blue, or at least is an option they've closed themselves off from.


Edit:
It's kinda like the age old "If the Nazi's hadn't attacked the Soviets, they would've won WWII" argument. It may be true, but we're talking about Hitler here; attacking the Soviets was an ideological thing that he was always going to do. It may not be rational within our non-Nazi worldview, but it was the rational and necessary move to him.

My point here is not to compare Jeff Bezos to Adolf Hitler, that was just the example that came to mind. What I'm trying to do is make the point that leaders are also people, with their own goals and agendas and worldviews, who won't always act rationally.

The nicer version of this comparison is to Elon spending so much money on building a vehicle to take crew and cargo to a Mars colony which no one has come forward to build. He does it because he believes it's the correct path, whether or not it's the rational business decision.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2021 06:51 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline RonM

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #58 on: 10/25/2021 06:38 pm »
Once Boeing gets Starliner operational, increasing the number of flights could bring the price down. Since Blue is working with Boeing they could be planning on launching Starliner from New Glenn. A reusable booster will lower the price.

Of course, Dragon or Starship will be cheaper, but remember "don't put all your eggs in one basket."

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Blue Origin Orbital Habitats
« Reply #59 on: 10/25/2021 06:46 pm »
Ok, let's settle down. Orbital Reef is not using Starliner because it's Pork. It's using Starliner because that is literally the only near term crew transport option. The only alternatives for Blue are working with SpaceX, privately funding the development of Crew Dreamchaser, or building their own crew vehicle. But none of those alternatives are viable; at this point, SpaceX are basically Blue's sworn enemies (due to Blue's own pettiness), and the other two options probably wouldn't be ready until the second half of the decade at the very earliest.
This isn't actually true. Starliner isn't the only near term human transport option. Its just the one that doesn't mean working with spaceX. All other old space companies work with their "competition" all the time. The only difference here is Bezos's ego. That is an important point. Blue will hurt its chances on a project because of its owners ego when dealing with spaceX.
« Last Edit: 10/25/2021 06:47 pm by deadman1204 »

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