Author Topic: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine  (Read 76766 times)

Offline Aeneas

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #60 on: 06/22/2020 11:06 am »
Do we know the TWR of BE-7?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #61 on: 09/18/2020 08:56 pm »
twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1307059852729028608

Quote
An infrared image of Blue Origin hot fire testing a BE-7 rocket engine, which will be used for the company's crewed lunar lander, at NASA's Marshall space flight center in June:

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1307060562157862913

Quote
NASA says it worked with Blue Origin "to perform a series of hot-fire tests" on a prototype of the BE-7 engine, which is "additively manufactured" (i.e., 3D-printed).

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/releases/2020/hardware-testing-heats-up-at-marshall-test-laboratory.html

Quote
This summer, Marshall engineers worked with Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, to perform a series of hot-fire tests on Blue Origin’s BE-7 engine thrust chamber assembly prototype. The BE-7 is an additively manufactured engine made to power in-space systems that are under development for various applications. This testing demonstrated features specifically enabled by additive manufacturing to provide high performance, and tested chamber pressures across the full throttle range. The BE-7 will power Blue Origin’s commercial cargo lunar lander system for both government and commercial customers.
« Last Edit: 09/18/2020 08:59 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #62 on: 12/04/2020 12:10 pm »
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1334847142469529601

Quote
The BE-7 is a high-performance, additively manufactured LH2/LOX engine that will power the Blue Origin-led National Team HLS lunar lander. This week's test at @NASA Marshall in Huntsville brings the program’s cumulative test time to 1,245 seconds. #Artemis bit.ly/3oAN4R5

https://www.blueorigin.com/news/be7-engine-testing

Quote
NEWS DEC 4, 2020
BLUE ORIGIN'S BE-7 ENGINE TESTING FURTHER DEMONSTRATES CAPABILITY TO LAND ON THE MOON

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – Blue Origin’s BE-7 engine program continues its testing at NASA Marshall Space Flight Center. This week, the program kicked off the fourth thrust chamber test series of its high-efficiency engine. The hotfire testing further validates the engine that will power Blue Origin’s National Team Human Landing System (HLS) in support of NASA’s Artemis program.
BE-7 Engine at NASA Marshall

So far in this recent campaign, the thrust chamber was tested for a duration of 20 seconds. This brings the cumulative testing time on the BE-7 thrust chamber to 1,245 seconds. The BE-7 is a high-performance, additively manufactured liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen lunar landing engine with 10,000 lbf of thrust – throttling down to 2,000 lbf of thrust for a precise landing on the Moon.

“This thrust chamber test measured the ability to extract energy out of the hydrogen and oxygen cooled combustor segments that power the engine’s turbopumps – the key to achieving high engine performance,” said John Vilja, senior vice president, Engines, Blue Origin. “The high specific impulse, deep throttling, and restart capabilities of the BE-7 make it the ideal engine for large lunar payload transport as well as many other in-space applications. Thanks to the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center team for their support in this testing. We value this partnership and are looking forward to more test campaigns with them.”

Within the National Team’s Human Landing System architecture, the BE-7 is used on both the Descent Element and Transfer Element.

“The BE-7, a turbomachinery-based engine using the most efficient propellants, is optimal for deep-space maneuvers and landing on the Moon,” said Brent Sherwood, vice president, Advanced Development Programs, Blue Origin. “Our engine test series is steadily maturing what’s needed to get Americans safely on the lunar surface as soon as possible. We are positioning to use the Moon’s ice resources for rocket propellant, which will make exploration sustainable and open the Moon for commerce.”

Developed privately over several years, the BE-7 is the latest high-performance engine in the Blue Origin family, building upon the demonstrated success of the BE-3 PM hydrogen/oxygen engine that powers the New Shepard vehicle.

Attached photo caption:

Quote
A photo from the fourth thrust chamber test series of the BE-7 engine at NASA Marshall, which lasted 10 seconds.

Attached engine graphic caption:

Quote
BE-7 is an additively manufactured, high-performance, dual-expander cycle engine, generating 40 kN (10,000 lbf) thrust.
« Last Edit: 12/04/2020 12:13 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Hog

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #63 on: 12/04/2020 12:57 pm »
^^^^^^^
Pretty good startup sick goose "honk" at 3 seconds of that video. I dont believe that enough of the shutdown sequence was shown in order to hear if there is a shutdown "honk".
Paul

Offline Seamurda

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #64 on: 12/07/2020 06:32 pm »

There are maybe a couple of engines existing that have better specific impulse. According to wikipedia [1], it essentially is only beat by CE-7.5, RL-10B-2, Vinci and RD-0146D. But clearly it is close to the top of the list if not the top spot.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_orbital_rocket_engines

True but it's not leading the list. Maybe they have a much better TWR? Yes, it's good to be in the top range but not if the other engines are decades old and you are able to do a greenfield approach.
Lower dry mass is more important than few seconds ISP. This especially so in case of reuseable lander or OTV where every kg makes a difference.

Price, reliability, throttle range or simply a smaller nozzle than those mentioned above because height is an important factor.

I suspect gimble range might come into it as well, suspect that a lander engine may need to be able to gimble further and faster than an OTV engine this would limit your range of expansion ratios.

TWR makes more of a difference on a lander engine vs an OTV as well, all things being equal on an OTV you can reduce the thrust to lower engine weight and trade for a large nozzle.

ISP basically scales by fuel type, expansion ratio, cycle type, combustion efficiency and chamber pressure in about that order. As a closed cycle I'd expect the BE-7 to have about the same ISP as an RL-10 for a given expansion ratio with a slight advantage due to getting rid of a gearbox.

For reference in NASAs 1980's OTV study a dual expander engine was proposed with an ISP of 480+ with a 650-1 expansion ratio which would indicate where this engine may be able to go one day.

Offline GWH

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #65 on: 12/09/2020 02:18 pm »
Close up view of the thrust chamber on the test stand from Blue's latest HLS video @ 4:22:
« Last Edit: 12/10/2020 02:28 am by GWH »

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #66 on: 12/10/2020 12:08 pm »
All the BE-7 CAD (and the mockup) have the LOX regen section as part of the nozzle. I guess they can't run that at sea level because the one at Marshall appears to have it above the normal chamber section.
I tried it at home

Offline kfsorensen

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #67 on: 02/10/2021 06:20 pm »
WANTED INFO: Biggest unknown piece of information for this engine is the O/F (oxidizer to fuel) ratio. Will be added here if found.

Did anyone ever find out (or deduce) the mixture ratio of this engine?
Doesn't seem like it should be any big secret.  If it's anything like other LH2/LOX engines it will be somewhere around 5.5 to 6.0.

Offline Hog

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #68 on: 02/10/2021 07:13 pm »
WANTED INFO: Biggest unknown piece of information for this engine is the O/F (oxidizer to fuel) ratio. Will be added here if found.

Did anyone ever find out (or deduce) the mixture ratio of this engine?
Doesn't seem like it should be any big secret.  If it's anything like other LH2/LOX engines it will be somewhere around 5.5 to 6.0.
RL10, also being an expander cycle-hydrolox engine is around 5.88:1, so I'd guess your 5.5-6.0 MR(Mixture Ratio) sound credible..

IIRC The right engine of STS-93 with its thrust limiting nozzle leak, added more oxidizer to the mix and ran it at 6.03:1, which led to a "Lox Low Level Cut-off" resulting in a 0.15 foot per second underspeed of the vehicle. 

The deep-throttling capability of the BE-7  will be exciting and very useful.
« Last Edit: 02/10/2021 07:16 pm by Hog »
Paul

Offline WormPicker959

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #69 on: 02/26/2021 07:30 pm »
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1334847142469529601

Quote
The BE-7 is a high-performance, additively manufactured LH2/LOX engine that will power the Blue Origin-led National Team HLS lunar lander. This week's test at @NASA Marshall in Huntsville brings the program’s cumulative test time to 1,245 seconds. #Artemis bit.ly/3oAN4R5

https://www.blueorigin.com/news/be7-engine-testing

Quote
NEWS DEC 4, 2020
BLUE ORIGIN'S BE-7 ENGINE TESTING FURTHER DEMONSTRATES CAPABILITY TO LAND ON THE MOON

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – Blue Origin’s BE-7 engine program continues its testing at NASA Marshall Space Flight Center. This week, the program kicked off the fourth thrust chamber test series of its high-efficiency engine. The hotfire testing further validates the engine that will power Blue Origin’s National Team Human Landing System (HLS) in support of NASA’s Artemis program.
BE-7 Engine at NASA Marshall

So far in this recent campaign, the thrust chamber was tested for a duration of 20 seconds. This brings the cumulative testing time on the BE-7 thrust chamber to 1,245 seconds. The BE-7 is a high-performance, additively manufactured liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen lunar landing engine with 10,000 lbf of thrust – throttling down to 2,000 lbf of thrust for a precise landing on the Moon.

“This thrust chamber test measured the ability to extract energy out of the hydrogen and oxygen cooled combustor segments that power the engine’s turbopumps – the key to achieving high engine performance,” said John Vilja, senior vice president, Engines, Blue Origin. “The high specific impulse, deep throttling, and restart capabilities of the BE-7 make it the ideal engine for large lunar payload transport as well as many other in-space applications. Thanks to the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center team for their support in this testing. We value this partnership and are looking forward to more test campaigns with them.”

Within the National Team’s Human Landing System architecture, the BE-7 is used on both the Descent Element and Transfer Element.

“The BE-7, a turbomachinery-based engine using the most efficient propellants, is optimal for deep-space maneuvers and landing on the Moon,” said Brent Sherwood, vice president, Advanced Development Programs, Blue Origin. “Our engine test series is steadily maturing what’s needed to get Americans safely on the lunar surface as soon as possible. We are positioning to use the Moon’s ice resources for rocket propellant, which will make exploration sustainable and open the Moon for commerce.”

Developed privately over several years, the BE-7 is the latest high-performance engine in the Blue Origin family, building upon the demonstrated success of the BE-3 PM hydrogen/oxygen engine that powers the New Shepard vehicle.

Attached photo caption:

Quote
A photo from the fourth thrust chamber test series of the BE-7 engine at NASA Marshall, which lasted 10 seconds.

Attached engine graphic caption:

Quote
BE-7 is an additively manufactured, high-performance, dual-expander cycle engine, generating 40 kN (10,000 lbf) thrust.

Would somebody smarter than me explain why the flame here is so blue/yellow? I was under the impression that Hydrolox engines tend to have nearly transparent blue exhaust? I suppose it must be the glow from kicked up dust?

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #70 on: 02/26/2021 11:56 pm »
Would somebody smarter than me explain why the flame here is so blue/yellow? I was under the impression that Hydrolox engines tend to have nearly transparent blue exhaust? I suppose it must be the glow from kicked up dust?

Because it burns mostly clear, small impurities can have large effects on the color. I don't know the exact spec of hydrogen that Marshall uses, but I have seen some very orange hydrogen engine pictures before. A few parts per million of stuff can change the color. The camera settings at night can also play a part.
« Last Edit: 02/26/2021 11:57 pm by Gliderflyer »
I tried it at home

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #71 on: 03/26/2022 01:31 am »
Looks like there is a new render of BE-7 in the latest Blue Origin video. Lot less spaghetti looking. Also looks like they are going with a throat gimbal.
I tried it at home

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #72 on: 04/02/2022 01:30 am »
In the NS-20 webcast (around T-54:22), there was a hot fire video from 2/23/2022 of BE-7 at NASA's TS116 stand. It looks like the TCA is still running in pressure fed mode without pumps installed.
I tried it at home

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #73 on: 05/18/2022 08:44 pm »
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1527026736688353280

Quote
Earlier this year, Blue Origin’s #BE7 lunar lander engines program completed another successful Thrust Chamber Assembly hotfire test campaign at @NASA_Marshall. To date, the campaign has completed a total of 92 tests for 3,347 cumulative seconds of hotfire.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #74 on: 03/28/2023 05:01 pm »
twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1640760790285254674

Quote
Last week, our BE-7 team conducted another successful Thrust Chamber Assembly (TCA) test at NASA Marshall Space Flight Center Test Stand 116. Our tests on an upgraded TCA bring our cumulative test time to more than 4000 seconds, and we are on track in our engine development path.

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1640760794240499712

Quote
This was a self-funded test as part of our campaign to advance our lunar capabilities, and we’re grateful for our @NASA_Marshall partners.
« Last Edit: 03/28/2023 05:01 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #75 on: 03/28/2023 06:23 pm »
Video also available on YouTube and Facebook.


Online Comga

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #76 on: 03/28/2023 07:06 pm »
Looks like there is a new render of BE-7 in the latest Blue Origin video.
Lot less spaghetti looking.
Also looks like they are going with a throat gimbal.

A search for “throat gimbaled rocket engine” turned up a fascinating discussion of the Lunar Module Descent Engine at enginehistory.org.
Its gimbal mount ring, which looks almost square, appears quite similar to the gimbal attach ring on the BE-7 render.

The page also includes the following statement:
Quote
TRW developed the LMDE on an extremely compressed schedule. Fortunately, there was plenty of hardware and a test-as-you-go philosophy that helped identify component problems early, before they could impact subassemblies and assemblies. Testing, of course, continued at the subassembly and assembly level.


Cumulative test time was 163,957 seconds.

It looks like Blue adopted some of project lead Jerry Elevrum’s concepts but not others. ;)
« Last Edit: 03/28/2023 07:11 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline GWH

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #77 on: 03/29/2023 02:07 am »
An excellent post on reddit points out a tweet from late 2020. Back then they were at 1245 seconds of runtime.

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1334847142469529601?t=ZoNwNGqISg-PL3-G94JnPw&


2.5 years to perform an additional 2755 seconds of run time. An average 92 seconds of testing per month, or 3 seconds per day.

Certainly NOT hardware rich. Which seems endemic to all their engine programs.

Offline GWH

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #78 on: 03/29/2023 02:20 am »
Tom Mueller throwing shade:
https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1640825353278218241?t=_dm9cYu1VuEAUBFWSbczJg&

I thought it was odd how the exhaust looks like they're running methalox, but am not knowledgeable myself to comment.

Online wannamoonbase

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-7 engine
« Reply #79 on: 03/29/2023 09:13 pm »
2.5 years to perform an additional 2755 seconds of run time. An average 92 seconds of testing per month, or 3 seconds per day.

Certainly NOT hardware rich. Which seems endemic to all their engine programs.

One would have thought that they might have learned from BE-4, but here we are again.

Pretty unimpressive.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5 (Welp a little early on IFT-4, but still have a shot at 5)

Tags: be-7 Blue Origin 
 

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