Author Topic: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft  (Read 45874 times)

Offline meekGee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #40 on: 09/21/2018 02:24 pm »

but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...



Ahem...  I know a company that just sold a trip around the moon...

When that ship comes back (after having flown the trip empty a few times) - how long before the next billionaire rents that party bus?

Edit:copying over as per Lar's request

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« Last Edit: 09/21/2018 02:42 pm by meekGee »
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #41 on: 09/21/2018 02:39 pm »



but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...



Ahem...  I know a company that just sold a trip around the moon...

When that ship comes back (after having flown the trip empty a few times) - how long before the next billionaire rents that party bus?

-----
ABCD: Always Be Counting Down

when it happens we will see.

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #42 on: 08/06/2019 04:33 am »
With the commercial-tourists initiative for the ISS, it's still Blue interested in the Biconic capsule or they will go directly to the NA?

edited: for put in a recent thread...
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Offline b0objunior

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #43 on: 08/06/2019 04:56 am »
With the commercial-tourists initiative for the ISS, it's still Blue interested in the Biconic capsule or they will go directly to the NA?

edited: for put in a recent thread...

I think they are more interested in working on the crewed lunar lander for now, and their NS capsule is not to be forgotten.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2019 05:05 am by b0objunior »

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #44 on: 04/05/2021 12:21 am »
How much will cost the biconic capsule today if blue wanted?
« Last Edit: 04/05/2021 12:22 am by Tywin »
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Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #45 on: 04/05/2021 12:25 am »
Should be Blue, built now?
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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #46 on: 04/05/2021 07:30 am »
I've always thought Blue's biconic was a great idea. I'd ball park the price at somewhere around or between cargo Dreamchaser and the crew Dragon. This is based off of next to nothing beyond the belief that Blue can't possibly be as wasteful/costly as Boeing.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2021 07:31 am by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Nevyn72

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #47 on: 04/05/2021 11:39 pm »
This is based off of next to nothing beyond the belief that Blue can't possibly be as wasteful/costly as Boeing.

Challenge accepted!  ;D

Offline Steve G

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #48 on: 04/08/2021 10:39 pm »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Offline Barnalby

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #49 on: 04/11/2021 01:59 am »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Agreed with regards to how overbuilt New Glenn is relative to that old capsule (or Starliner or Orion for that matter).  And yet they're building manned spaceflight infrastructure at LC-36 from the get-go.  I wonder what they're up to that they aren't talking about. 

Personally, I'd like to see a biconic manned 3rd stage that combines an Orion-tier crew capacity with as much delta V as Orion and the ICPS combined so that it could fly  Apollo 8 mission profile on a single NG launch before returning to earth for re-entry and a New Shepard style powered landing.  Think of it as a reusable Soyuz to the Moon.

Part of me likes to think that this is what they secretly pivoted to when they moved away from their smaller old orbital vehicle concept to New Glenn, and that one of the reasons why New Shepard seems so delayed is that they're using it as a test platform for this still-unacknowledged manned vehicle.

Offline ZChris13

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #50 on: 04/14/2021 10:44 pm »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Agreed with regards to how overbuilt New Glenn is relative to that old capsule (or Starliner or Orion for that matter).  And yet they're building manned spaceflight infrastructure at LC-36 from the get-go.  I wonder what they're up to that they aren't talking about. 

Personally, I'd like to see a biconic manned 3rd stage that combines an Orion-tier crew capacity with as much delta V as Orion and the ICPS combined so that it could fly  Apollo 8 mission profile on a single NG launch before returning to earth for re-entry and a New Shepard style powered landing.  Think of it as a reusable Soyuz to the Moon.

Part of me likes to think that this is what they secretly pivoted to when they moved away from their smaller old orbital vehicle concept to New Glenn, and that one of the reasons why New Shepard seems so delayed is that they're using it as a test platform for this still-unacknowledged manned vehicle.
Counterpoint: any fully reusable second stage would have either indistinguishable or superior capabilities at a lower per launch cost, although would require orbital refueling.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #51 on: 05/23/2022 10:55 pm »
In the context of Project Jarvis not being a Starship clone with a midbay, will we still see a relatively conventional megacapsule, a biconic, or an upsized lifting body topping the New Glenn stack? Or has the relative silence of BO imply something very different?


Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #52 on: 05/24/2022 04:41 am »
In the context of Project Jarvis not being a Starship clone with a midbay, will we still see a relatively conventional megacapsule, a biconic, or an upsized lifting body topping the New Glenn stack? Or has the relative silence of BO imply something very different?
I think the silence tells us very little.  We don't know how ambitious their plans are and how fast they intend to push their plans and how much money they have budgeted for it.

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #53 on: 05/24/2022 05:26 am »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #54 on: 05/24/2022 07:53 am »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

But that ends up being BO underwriting some of the costs for human rating Vulcan for Starliner/Dreamchaser in all but name. Admittedly New Glenn might be overkill for simpler taxi duties, thus justifying that niche...

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #55 on: 05/24/2022 07:31 pm »
New Glenn isnít really more payload than Vulcan. So I donít think it makes sense to call New Glenn overkill.
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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #56 on: 05/24/2022 08:22 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

New Glenn was publicly announced in Sept. 2016.  ULA gave the Vulcan engine award to Blue Origin in Sept. 2018, fully two years later.
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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #57 on: 05/24/2022 08:27 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

But that ends up being BO underwriting some of the costs for human rating Vulcan for Starliner/Dreamchaser in all but name. Admittedly New Glenn might be overkill for simpler taxi duties, thus justifying that niche...

New Glenn will be cheaper than Vulcan. IMO it would be a reasonable choice for Starliner or Dream Chaser launches. Excess LEO payload capacity could potentially be used for co-manifested payloads.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Starshipdown

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #58 on: 05/24/2022 08:46 pm »
New Glenn isnít really more payload than Vulcan. So I donít think it makes sense to call New Glenn overkill.

It is, at least to LEO. Even if we go with the 37 tonnes of the payload adapter limits of New Glenn, that's still 9.8 tonnes more mass to LEO over Vulcan. Even the GTO payload is generally greater than Vulcan since 13.6 tonnes is greater except for the VC6 configuration, which the two are then equal. Only the Vulcan Heavy (RL-10CX) beats New Glenn and only by
600 kg. And Vulcan numbers are for the fully expendable Vulcan. SMART reuse will take a bite out of payload, but by how much?

Online JayWee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #59 on: 05/24/2022 09:07 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

New Glenn was publicly announced in Sept. 2016.  ULA gave the Vulcan engine award to Blue Origin in Sept. 2018, fully two years later.

Wasn't it competing for NSSL which surprised ULA ? I do also remember there was a nasty surprise from BO to ULA.

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