Author Topic: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft  (Read 45954 times)

Offline Eric Hedman

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Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« on: 09/20/2018 12:07 am »
I found a line that piqued my curiosity on the Blue Origin website: "Make history with a suborbital flight, and you will receive early access to purchase tickets for our future orbital missions."

Does Blue Origin have a manned spacecraft in development yet for orbital flight for New Glenn to include a statement like this on their website?

Offline Markstark

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Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #1 on: 09/20/2018 12:30 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 02:02 am by Markstark »

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #2 on: 09/20/2018 12:36 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (complete speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn.
If New Glenn gets a reusable second stage and Starliner is supposed to be good for multiple flights, it would be interesting to see how much that could bring down the cost of manned flights.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #3 on: 09/20/2018 12:48 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #4 on: 09/20/2018 12:50 am »
Google biconic capsule. Its what they were doing 2012. No updates since, but NG is not being built for cargo only.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #5 on: 09/20/2018 12:56 am »
Google biconic capsule. Its what they were doing 2012. No updates since, but NG is not being built for cargo only.
I do remember that.  If they are still working on it, they are pretty good at keeping a secret.  Last year when I talked with a couple of Blue Origin employees at the EAA, they wouldn't answer any questions, that weren't already previously answered in public.

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #6 on: 09/20/2018 01:09 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Offline envy887

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #7 on: 09/20/2018 01:56 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #8 on: 09/20/2018 01:59 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Very important point!

Do you guys recall having much foreknowledge about New Glenn before it was officially announced? That might be a good barometer for how good they are as a company with secrecy. Though I’m sure that would get increasingly difficult with as the company gets bigger.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #9 on: 09/20/2018 02:34 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.  Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #10 on: 09/20/2018 02:36 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #11 on: 09/20/2018 02:47 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Personally, I'm thinking more of a partnership because I don't foresee Mr. Bezos selling his rocket company for decades to come. That's just my opinion though. ("hi you got a rocket!"... "hi you got a spacecraft!"... "let's be friends!"). Note: I'm aware there are plans to fly Starliner on Vulcan. But maybe that's not an exclusive
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 02:53 am by Markstark »

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #12 on: 09/20/2018 02:52 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Personally, I'm thinking more of a partnership because I don't foresee Mr. Bezos selling his rocket company for decades to come. That's just my opinion though. ("hi you got a rocket!"... "hi you got a spacecraft!"... "let's collaborate!"). Note: I'm aware there are plans to fly Starliner on Vulcan. But maybe that's not an exclusive

that would not surprise me either. its less the companies style but they do that  see ULA ...

and friendships are "changeable" :)

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #13 on: 09/20/2018 02:52 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.

Blue Origin does not yet have an orbital launcher yet, and SpaceX, which does have reusable rockets and the largest operational rocket in the world, thinks that the BFR/BFS could be beyond their capabilities.

I don't think Blue Origin would try to make that leap. I think they will be more incremental.

Quote
Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

That would not be true for capsules, since they are tried and true technology, and that is what Boeing and SpaceX are building. If Blue Origin is working on a biconic spacecraft then they are pretty much on their own.

Since they don't have an orbital launcher yet for a spacecraft they probably feel no need to unveil what they are working on. AndI don't have a preference for what they could be building - I just hope they are working on a reusable spacecraft of any sort...  :D
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #14 on: 09/20/2018 02:56 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.  Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

I am sure they are watching and will watch but my "guess" is that internal company thinking is 1) they dont have the money to build it (Boeing is a tad burned here with the Dreamliner) and 2) they dont think that the 2023 time frame is realistic.

now they maybe wrong...Boeing has been that before...the senior management made catastrophic mistakes with the dreamliner...but I am sure what has happened and is happening with Falcon9 first stage has changed their views of what "the next rocket" looks like and cost. 

Offline Lemurion

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #15 on: 09/20/2018 03:07 am »
I wouldn't be surprised if Blue at least looks into Starliner as an option, but as others have said, they need to get an orbital booster flying before they can put people on top of it. Besides, while rocket stages are not LEGO elements, capsules are closer to payloads and Starliner has already been designed for more than one different booster.

In the long run, I expect Bezos to get New Glenn flying and then decide what he wants to do with human spaceflight before making too many decisions about crew vehicles.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #16 on: 09/20/2018 03:14 am »
Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

The world's richest man did not achieve that metric without knowing how to acquire companies - see IMDB, Alexa, Audible, Zappos, Kiva and Whole Foods. Boeing is not unique in this regard.

Also, the world's richest man has a much more audacious goal in space than Boeing does, and no need to have a business model to achieve it. So I think it's unlikely what Jeff Bezos wants to do will intersect much with what Boeing thinks they can make money on.

Quote
Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.

Jeff Bezos has a reason for going to the Moon, and he doesn't have to make money doing it. Other than being a NASA contractor, Boeing has yet to have a business case for sending hardware or people to our Moon.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #17 on: 09/20/2018 03:59 am »
Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

The world's richest man did not achieve that metric without knowing how to acquire companies - see IMDB, Alexa, Audible, Zappos, Kiva and Whole Foods. Boeing is not unique in this regard.

Also, the world's richest man has a much more audacious goal in space than Boeing does, and no need to have a business model to achieve it. So I think it's unlikely what Jeff Bezos wants to do will intersect much with what Boeing thinks they can make money on.

Quote
Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.

Jeff Bezos has a reason for going to the Moon, and he doesn't have to make money doing it. Other than being a NASA contractor, Boeing has yet to have a business case for sending hardware or people to our Moon.

that is your opinion and I dont agree or dissagree with it completely

but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...

Bigelow Axiom etc seem to think that there is a third, but that is more than anything else a derivation on "pursuit of federal contracts"

otherwise its just all "hope" which is good to keep alive, but it does not pay the bills :)

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #18 on: 09/20/2018 04:12 am »
Blue selling engines to ULA gives them early credibility with prospective customers, especially in the US government. They need that if they expect to go from suborbital to heavy lift overnight and have payloads ready to go. They're not selling engines to ULA because they need the money. They can't possibly believe that ULA's or Boeing's vision for space is aligned with theirs.

It would be entirely within character for Blue to be surprisingly far along on a skunkworks human spacecraft project which has been kept closely under wraps for several years. They do their own thing, they do it quietly, they do it well, and they do it at their own pace.

I think there's some truth to the recent reports of Bezos beginning to crack the whip a little to speed up development, but nothing nearly so desperate as to make them consider buying Starliner flights. Bezon knows that Blue don't have to match SpaceX anytime soon. They just have to beat everybody else to secure their role as the essential second option, and they're in a very strong position to accomplish that in-house.

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #19 on: 09/20/2018 04:37 am »
A old article about this thread :D



https://www.space.com/19584-blue-origin-quiet-plans-for-spaceships.html

I hope they really are working on this...
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 04:38 am by Tywin »
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Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #20 on: 09/20/2018 04:39 am »
Blue selling engines to ULA gives them early credibility with prospective customers, especially in the US government. They need that if they expect to go from suborbital to heavy lift overnight and have payloads ready to go. They're not selling engines to ULA because they need the money. They can't possibly believe that ULA's or Boeing's vision for space is aligned with theirs.

Or SpaceX for that matter.

Quote
It would be entirely within character for Blue to be surprisingly far along on a skunkworks human spacecraft project which has been kept closely under wraps for several years. They do their own thing, they do it quietly, they do it well...

Yes, they are a quiet organization so far, and likely that won't change - much to all of our frustration.  ;)

Quote
...and they do it at their own pace.

I think there's some truth to the recent reports of Bezos beginning to crack the whip a little to speed up development...

Good, fast, cheap. Those are the corners of the Project Management Triangle. Assuming $1B per year budget covers their needs, one would think they could focus on the "fast" and "good" aspects. It sure doesn't appear like "fast" is a big concern for them, and if they are focused on "good" that is completely understandable.

Still, I think we'd all like to see more "Ferociter" than "Gradatim".

Quote
...but nothing nearly so desperate as to make them consider buying Starliner flights.

Not sure what that would give them, and it might slow them down from pursuing their own spacecraft. There is nothing they can learn as Starliner passengers that they can't get from NASA's expansive library of knowledge and their own resources.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline jbenton

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #21 on: 09/20/2018 04:43 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Agreed. For what it's worth, though Crew Dream Chaser is apparently 85% the same as Cargo.

They're not selling engines to ULA because they need the money. They can't possibly believe that ULA's or Boeing's vision for space is aligned with theirs.
If you believe ULA's propaganda, the two companies' visions for space are identical. Thousands working in space, cislunar economy, etc. I think that in ten or twenty years from now, either Blue and ULA are competing for the exact same market with the exact same goals, or they'll be the same company.

I think there's some truth to the recent reports of Bezos beginning to crack the whip a little to speed up development, but nothing nearly so desperate as to make them consider buying Starliner flights. Bezos knows that Blue don't have to match SpaceX anytime soon. They just have to beat everybody else to secure their role as the essential second option, and they're in a very strong position to accomplish that in-house.
What's their motto? Something about turtles?  :)

That being said, I agree that they would prefer to make their spacecraft in-house. SpaceX and Blue are all about DIY vertical integration; and, at least in the case of Bezos, if you can't do it yourself, merge.

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #22 on: 09/20/2018 04:53 am »


Yes, they are a quiet organization so far, and likely that won't change - much to all of our frustration.  ;)

For me is a good question, is why they like to be so secret...SpaceX and other companys are the contrary, they love show all they have and all the dreams in beautiful powerpoints...

And at the moment they are behind of SpaceX...why dont show al least in what are they working?
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Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #23 on: 09/20/2018 05:09 am »


Yes, they are a quiet organization so far, and likely that won't change - much to all of our frustration.  ;)

For me is a good question, is why they like to be so secret...SpaceX and other companys are the contrary, they love show all they have and all the dreams in beautiful powerpoints...

And at the moment they are behind of SpaceX...why dont show al least in what are they working?
There are good reasons to be secretive in competitive businesses.  If they have some new creative approach that will give them a jump over the competition, they don't want to give it away and give the competition time to catch up.  They are showing images of New Glenn because they are trying to sell their launch services.  They may start showing what they are going to do with manned orbital flight as soon as they are ready to start selling that.  Or it's possible that they are doing very little about a manned orbital vehicle and just don't want the world to know that either.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #24 on: 09/20/2018 10:42 am »
A old article about this thread :D



https://www.space.com/19584-blue-origin-quiet-plans-for-spaceships.html

I hope they really are working on this...
The original plan was to fly this capsule on BE3 powered orbital LV, but they decided to go down NG path. Given NG extra performance that capsule may have grown in size to something that will carry 20-30 people.


Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #25 on: 09/20/2018 11:36 am »
Blue selling engines to ULA gives them early credibility with prospective customers, especially in the US government. They need that if they expect to go from suborbital to heavy lift overnight and have payloads ready to go. They're not selling engines to ULA because they need the money. They can't possibly believe that ULA's or Boeing's vision for space is aligned with theirs.


Boeing doesnt have a vision, it has customers...and stockholders...and must make a profit to continue in business.  It is not a piggy bank where some CEO can say "I"ll spend the companies money creating this or that device which I "hope" with go to this or that place and if it makes money great or it doesnt ok fine"

EM and to a greater extent JB have personal money, far more than they can ever spend on themselves in a lifetime, so they can indulge their dreams and "whims" and "vision" and see where it takes them.

there is something to be commended here...most people in their position buy endless houses or yachts or whatever...and in the end have little but self gratitude to show for it...but these folks have an indulgence that Boeing cannot

to say however that Boeing does not have "vision" is absurd.  Boeing has repeatedly through its history "broke the mold" in aviation.  from the B299 to the Dreamliner it has bet the company fortune on developing a product or products which has kept the world free (the B299 to B52 were unique in house inventions) or opened the world to millions.  when my Grandmother was delivering C377's for the company the average price of an economy ticket to Europe (the UK) was in the thousands of dollars in current dollars.  today its in the hundreds...and in large measure thats because of Boeing products.

the problem right now is that most if not all of the visions of "humans in space" are mere fantasy unsupported by real economics...other than just someone spending a pile of money with no real aspect or foundation for any economic return (all you have to do is go to any thread here about a "Mars economy" and its all hand waving and dependent on people continuing to just spend their own personal fortunes to make it happen)

the key illustration of that is that SpaceX, OSC and eventually Boeing and SpaceX are making money on human flight; solely because the federal government is spending tax payer dollars to maintain it.  Put another way SpaceX would never have had money to develop Dragon or Dragon2 without federal dollars. and its pretty clear that they never would have developed those vehicles.  Its unclear (at least to me) that they have the money to develop BFr/s. 

Now it might happen that if SpaceX and BO and other lower the cost of access to space by humans and open the "variety of it" (iemore people can come) than something can be found that has value only because humans are doing it...and this can happen off the federal dole...but so far there has been no hint of what that is...and unless there is one, even JB pockets eventually will run dry.

I dont know JB (other than having met him a few times as he was setting up Amazons flight operation) but I do know he grasp that at some point someone has to make money in space to make space a place for people.  It is no secret that JB was lobbied pretty hard by Airbus to get a foot in the door for their freighter versions...on the other hand JB chose the best product for his goal...which was a Boeing product.  I know he developed a very deep "link" with Boeing people and Dennis.  JB knows good products when he sees them.  It would not surprise me either way of Boeing and JB have future activites together in spaceflight and human space flight. 

both in the end know that its money that makes the world go round, or lets you get off it

« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 11:37 am by TripleSeven »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #26 on: 09/20/2018 01:16 pm »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.
Yes, I do. It was in CCDev presentations.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Very important point!

Do you guys recall having much foreknowledge about New Glenn before it was officially announced? That might be a good barometer for how good they are as a company with secrecy. Though I’m sure that would get increasingly difficult with as the company gets bigger.
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Offline ncb1397

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #27 on: 09/20/2018 02:14 pm »


That has some features of an orbital capsule. Might start with that as a base.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #28 on: 09/20/2018 03:14 pm »
to say however that Boeing does not have "vision" is absurd.

Compared to what Jeff Bezos wants to do they don't.

Jeff Bezos wants to move humanity out into space and turn Earth into a park. Whoever is the current Boeing CEO will always be charged with ensuring shareholder value.

Until there is a business case for expanding humanity out into space, Boeing will never have a "vision" for space that they plan to execute on their own dime. Pretty much everything they propose today is in the context of being a contractor for the U.S. Government. That's not "vision", that's "marketing". The two are not the same.

When Bezos does let on what they are doing for a spacecraft we will have a better idea how New Glenn and New Armstrong will be used to expand humanity out into space.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 05:09 pm by Coastal Ron »
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline envy887

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #29 on: 09/20/2018 03:28 pm »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Agreed. For what it's worth, though Crew Dream Chaser is apparently 85% the same as Cargo.

It's the last 15% that takes the longest and costs the most.

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #30 on: 09/20/2018 03:33 pm »


Compared the what Jeff Bezos wants to do they don't.

Jeff Bezos wants to move humanity out into space and turn Earth into a park. Whoever is the current Boeing CEO will always be charged with ensuring shareholder value.

Until there is a business case for expanding humanity out into space, Boeing will never have a "vision" for space that they plan to execute on their own dime. Pretty much everything they propose today is in the context of being a contractor for the U.S. Government. That's not "vision", that's "marketing". The two are not the same.

When Bezos does let on what they are doing for a spacecraft we will have a better idea how New Glenn and New Armstrong will be used to expand humanity out into space.

the Boeing CEO's job is to have vision for the company...and to talk with customers who have vision (Juan Trippe for instance or well Jeff Bezos) and try and have the internal vision to help them realize their dreams

the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

Space settlement by humans has become among many (it use to be among me but I "grew up" :) ) sort of a religion.

"If only the cost come down we will go settle Mars and do the other things not because they are hard butn ow they are easy"  ..... "If only astronauts were replaced with good looking women playing violins floating i zero gee" wow that would turn people on to people in space and get people interested.

and maybe that is true...but its never worked anywhere else, at any other time in the world.  there has to be a personal and "large scale" economic reason to do something like that...

this has been discussed a lot...but its cheap to get to Alaska, land is virtually free, etc etc.  its a very low population, and except for oil, low industry state.  if it was not Saudi Arabia in the snow...it would be less even so

Low cost access to space makes it easier for the "great break through" to happen...it makes it easier for other visionaries to step up and see if their vision can work.  but right now you cannot tell me one thing humans do in space that is worth their cost...at almost any "likely price point"

and without that...no vision will survive :(   I like to think Bezos knows this ...but thats just "hope" on my part

Online matthewkantar

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #31 on: 09/20/2018 04:30 pm »
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

One has to be amazed that an individual "without any grounding in economics" somehow stumbled into building a 28 billion dollar business from a 180 million dollar investment. Success in aerospace biz must be rather a lot like the lottery. Who knew?

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #32 on: 09/20/2018 04:52 pm »
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

One has to be amazed that an individual "without any grounding in economics" somehow stumbled into building a 28 billion dollar business from a 180 million dollar investment. Success in aerospace biz must be rather a lot like the lottery. Who knew?

the more money you have to start with, the more success you can stumble into

and while I guess the lottery is a tad overboard...dealing with random chance in life is what seps the winners from the losers.  I have friends who did everything I did and some did it better...and some of those are working at a horrible business jet job because the company that they went to work with, went, to no fault of their own belly up

Offline RonM

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #33 on: 09/20/2018 05:01 pm »
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

Elon Musk has bachelor's degrees in economics and physics. Jeff Bezos has degrees in electrical engineering and computer science. Both of their success in business, especially Bezos, shows they know something about making money and creating new markets.

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #34 on: 09/20/2018 05:14 pm »
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

Elon Musk has bachelor's degrees in economics and physics. Jeff Bezos has degrees in electrical engineering and computer science. Both of their success in business, especially Bezos, shows they know something about making money and creating new markets.

I dont disagree with that at all...I dont see Musk talk much about "new markets" in space where humans "pull their mass" we will see..

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #35 on: 09/20/2018 05:16 pm »
It doesn't really count as "vision" if you need an existing market to be there before dipping your toes carefully. (i.e. Boeing) VISION is seeing what could be there and building something to create it.

Boeing had this quality, hopefully a smidgeon of it remains.

Offline su27k

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #36 on: 09/20/2018 05:23 pm »
the Boeing CEO's job is to have vision for the company...and to talk with customers who have vision (Juan Trippe for instance or well Jeff Bezos) and try and have the internal vision to help them realize their dreams

the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

Space settlement by humans has become among many (it use to be among me but I "grew up" :) ) sort of a religion.

"If only the cost come down we will go settle Mars and do the other things not because they are hard butn ow they are easy"  ..... "If only astronauts were replaced with good looking women playing violins floating i zero gee" wow that would turn people on to people in space and get people interested.

and maybe that is true...but its never worked anywhere else, at any other time in the world.  there has to be a personal and "large scale" economic reason to do something like that...

this has been discussed a lot...but its cheap to get to Alaska, land is virtually free, etc etc.  its a very low population, and except for oil, low industry state.  if it was not Saudi Arabia in the snow...it would be less even so

Low cost access to space makes it easier for the "great break through" to happen...it makes it easier for other visionaries to step up and see if their vision can work.  but right now you cannot tell me one thing humans do in space that is worth their cost...at almost any "likely price point"

and without that...no vision will survive :(   I like to think Bezos knows this ...but thats just "hope" on my part

If it's grounded in economics, it's business plan, not a vision.

So Musk's vision may not become reality, big deal.... If you hear his speech, he's fully aware of this possibility. The point is, if he doesn't do what he does, the probability of realizing his vision is exactly zero; by doing what he does he at least has a chance.

And yes, it's exactly like a sort of religion, it takes a leap of faith to think there's more to space than the current few business opportunities. Without this faith, there's no will to radically reduce the cost of access to space, and without a radical reduction in cost there's no chance for new business opportunity to arise, this chicken and egg problem has stagnated space industry for decades, it really does take faith to break it. Old space has no faith, that's why they're not the ones doing what Musk and Bezos is doing.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #37 on: 09/20/2018 05:23 pm »
Compared the what Jeff Bezos wants to do they don't.

Jeff Bezos wants to move humanity out into space and turn Earth into a park. Whoever is the current Boeing CEO will always be charged with ensuring shareholder value.

the Boeing CEO's job is to have vision for the company...

Apparently you don't recognize the difference between a personal vision and a corporate one.

Jeff Bezos has a personal vision for the future, and he is willing to use his own money to make it happen. No business case is needed at this point since he can fund his vision with his personal wealth.

The CEO of a company like Boeing is hired to return value to the shareholders. Sure that means they have to set a course that will keep the money flowing long after the CEO has left, but don't confuse shareholder needs with a "vision".

Quote
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

You are confusing having a business case for doing something with the goal someone has of benefiting humanity in the future.

For instance, there really isn't a business case for world peace, yet many yearn for it.

Both Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos are very smart business people though, and Elon Musk especially has mastered the art of getting customers to fund his goals. Jeff Bezos has been working on that too, and it's far too early to say that there is no economic reason for moving humanity out into space. We're still in the R&D phase of investment, with many decades (centuries?) to go of further investment.

This is how "vision" works.

You continue to want to talk about any BUT the topic at hand - anything to say about Blue Origin's plans for a spacecraft? Because otherwise you should take this conversation to a space economics thread...  ::)
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline RonM

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #38 on: 09/20/2018 05:26 pm »
the problem with both Musk and maybe Bezos, but I am sure of Musk (again its hard to see where Bezos is going) is that it seems to be "all vision" without any grounding in economics.

Elon Musk has bachelor's degrees in economics and physics. Jeff Bezos has degrees in electrical engineering and computer science. Both of their success in business, especially Bezos, shows they know something about making money and creating new markets.

I dont disagree with that at all...I dont see Musk talk much about "new markets" in space where humans "pull their mass" we will see..

Musk talks about SpaceX being a space shipping company and hopes someone else will come up with a business plan for a space economy. That does sound like wishful thinking.

Bezos talks about a space economy, but is short on details.

We'll have to wait and see how this shakes out. SpaceX has the head start on Blue when it comes to hardware, but Blue maybe the first to develop a practical space business case. Something more than communication satellites.

Then the big aerospace companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc. will be able to convince their shareholders to move to the new space economy. That's when it really gets interesting.

Offline Lar

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #39 on: 09/20/2018 05:55 pm »
Take general discussion of Blue (and of Blue vs SpaceX) to the general thread for Blue:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43998

Not here.
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Offline meekGee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #40 on: 09/21/2018 02:24 pm »

but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...



Ahem...  I know a company that just sold a trip around the moon...

When that ship comes back (after having flown the trip empty a few times) - how long before the next billionaire rents that party bus?

Edit:copying over as per Lar's request

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« Last Edit: 09/21/2018 02:42 pm by meekGee »
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #41 on: 09/21/2018 02:39 pm »



but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...



Ahem...  I know a company that just sold a trip around the moon...

When that ship comes back (after having flown the trip empty a few times) - how long before the next billionaire rents that party bus?

-----
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when it happens we will see.

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #42 on: 08/06/2019 04:33 am »
With the commercial-tourists initiative for the ISS, it's still Blue interested in the Biconic capsule or they will go directly to the NA?

edited: for put in a recent thread...
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Offline b0objunior

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #43 on: 08/06/2019 04:56 am »
With the commercial-tourists initiative for the ISS, it's still Blue interested in the Biconic capsule or they will go directly to the NA?

edited: for put in a recent thread...

I think they are more interested in working on the crewed lunar lander for now, and their NS capsule is not to be forgotten.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2019 05:05 am by b0objunior »

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #44 on: 04/05/2021 12:21 am »
How much will cost the biconic capsule today if blue wanted?
« Last Edit: 04/05/2021 12:22 am by Tywin »
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Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #45 on: 04/05/2021 12:25 am »
Should be Blue, built now?
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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #46 on: 04/05/2021 07:30 am »
I've always thought Blue's biconic was a great idea. I'd ball park the price at somewhere around or between cargo Dreamchaser and the crew Dragon. This is based off of next to nothing beyond the belief that Blue can't possibly be as wasteful/costly as Boeing.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2021 07:31 am by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Nevyn72

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #47 on: 04/05/2021 11:39 pm »
This is based off of next to nothing beyond the belief that Blue can't possibly be as wasteful/costly as Boeing.

Challenge accepted!  ;D

Offline Steve G

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #48 on: 04/08/2021 10:39 pm »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Offline Barnalby

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #49 on: 04/11/2021 01:59 am »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Agreed with regards to how overbuilt New Glenn is relative to that old capsule (or Starliner or Orion for that matter).  And yet they're building manned spaceflight infrastructure at LC-36 from the get-go.  I wonder what they're up to that they aren't talking about. 

Personally, I'd like to see a biconic manned 3rd stage that combines an Orion-tier crew capacity with as much delta V as Orion and the ICPS combined so that it could fly  Apollo 8 mission profile on a single NG launch before returning to earth for re-entry and a New Shepard style powered landing.  Think of it as a reusable Soyuz to the Moon.

Part of me likes to think that this is what they secretly pivoted to when they moved away from their smaller old orbital vehicle concept to New Glenn, and that one of the reasons why New Shepard seems so delayed is that they're using it as a test platform for this still-unacknowledged manned vehicle.

Offline ZChris13

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #50 on: 04/14/2021 10:44 pm »
The New Glenn is over-rated for the originally designed biconic capsule unless they plan to use it for lunar flights. What they could to is upscale it as a Starship-like second stage for a fully reusable system, offering both payload and passengers. Blue has enough on its plate to complete something without getting tangled in another project that might distract from the higher priorities. Let's focus on getting into orbit.

Agreed with regards to how overbuilt New Glenn is relative to that old capsule (or Starliner or Orion for that matter).  And yet they're building manned spaceflight infrastructure at LC-36 from the get-go.  I wonder what they're up to that they aren't talking about. 

Personally, I'd like to see a biconic manned 3rd stage that combines an Orion-tier crew capacity with as much delta V as Orion and the ICPS combined so that it could fly  Apollo 8 mission profile on a single NG launch before returning to earth for re-entry and a New Shepard style powered landing.  Think of it as a reusable Soyuz to the Moon.

Part of me likes to think that this is what they secretly pivoted to when they moved away from their smaller old orbital vehicle concept to New Glenn, and that one of the reasons why New Shepard seems so delayed is that they're using it as a test platform for this still-unacknowledged manned vehicle.
Counterpoint: any fully reusable second stage would have either indistinguishable or superior capabilities at a lower per launch cost, although would require orbital refueling.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #51 on: 05/23/2022 10:55 pm »
In the context of Project Jarvis not being a Starship clone with a midbay, will we still see a relatively conventional megacapsule, a biconic, or an upsized lifting body topping the New Glenn stack? Or has the relative silence of BO imply something very different?


Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #52 on: 05/24/2022 04:41 am »
In the context of Project Jarvis not being a Starship clone with a midbay, will we still see a relatively conventional megacapsule, a biconic, or an upsized lifting body topping the New Glenn stack? Or has the relative silence of BO imply something very different?
I think the silence tells us very little.  We don't know how ambitious their plans are and how fast they intend to push their plans and how much money they have budgeted for it.

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #53 on: 05/24/2022 05:26 am »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #54 on: 05/24/2022 07:53 am »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

But that ends up being BO underwriting some of the costs for human rating Vulcan for Starliner/Dreamchaser in all but name. Admittedly New Glenn might be overkill for simpler taxi duties, thus justifying that niche...

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #55 on: 05/24/2022 07:31 pm »
New Glenn isn’t really more payload than Vulcan. So I don’t think it makes sense to call New Glenn overkill.
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #56 on: 05/24/2022 08:22 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

New Glenn was publicly announced in Sept. 2016.  ULA gave the Vulcan engine award to Blue Origin in Sept. 2018, fully two years later.
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #57 on: 05/24/2022 08:27 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

But that ends up being BO underwriting some of the costs for human rating Vulcan for Starliner/Dreamchaser in all but name. Admittedly New Glenn might be overkill for simpler taxi duties, thus justifying that niche...

New Glenn will be cheaper than Vulcan. IMO it would be a reasonable choice for Starliner or Dream Chaser launches. Excess LEO payload capacity could potentially be used for co-manifested payloads.
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Offline Starshipdown

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #58 on: 05/24/2022 08:46 pm »
New Glenn isn’t really more payload than Vulcan. So I don’t think it makes sense to call New Glenn overkill.

It is, at least to LEO. Even if we go with the 37 tonnes of the payload adapter limits of New Glenn, that's still 9.8 tonnes more mass to LEO over Vulcan. Even the GTO payload is generally greater than Vulcan since 13.6 tonnes is greater except for the VC6 configuration, which the two are then equal. Only the Vulcan Heavy (RL-10CX) beats New Glenn and only by
600 kg. And Vulcan numbers are for the fully expendable Vulcan. SMART reuse will take a bite out of payload, but by how much?

Offline JayWee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #59 on: 05/24/2022 09:07 pm »
The sticky bit is that Blue Origin got Boeing and Sierra to sign on as partners for the Orbital Reef CLD bid. So if Orbital Reef is selected to go ahead, and Blue Origin decides that they want a "first-party" crew transportation capability, their partners (especially Boeing) would not be happy. Blue surprised ULA by announcing New Glenn after winning the Vulcan engine contract. Would they do that kind of thing again?

Blue has to decide whether they are a vertical operation like SpaceX or a facilitator of a heterogenous orbital economy as Jeff Bezos originally envisioned. Orbital Reef seems to embody the latter view, in which it's not necessarily appropriate for Blue Origin to operate their own crew transportation services. Boeing's lawyers would probably prefer that in writing.

New Glenn was publicly announced in Sept. 2016.  ULA gave the Vulcan engine award to Blue Origin in Sept. 2018, fully two years later.

Wasn't it competing for NSSL which surprised ULA ? I do also remember there was a nasty surprise from BO to ULA.

Offline GWH

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #60 on: 05/24/2022 09:13 pm »
Someone needs to pay for crew rating one LV with CST or another.

I doubt ULA has an appetite for that, but Blue Origin might. 

Who knows, maybe Blue would prefer to just buy capsules outright and take on a larger responsibility for operations as a complete service. It would still require Boeing to do some work, but they are already providing maintenance and operations for Orbital Reef.

Offline JayWee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #61 on: 05/24/2022 09:15 pm »
Any idea how much money we are talking about?
Anyway, crewrating Vulcan includes crew-rating the BE-4s. This is definitely something BO might do on its own.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #62 on: 05/25/2022 01:48 am »
New Glenn isn’t really more payload than Vulcan. So I don’t think it makes sense to call New Glenn overkill.

It is, at least to LEO. Even if we go with the 37 tonnes of the payload adapter limits of New Glenn, that's still 9.8 tonnes more mass to LEO over Vulcan. Even the GTO payload is generally greater than Vulcan since 13.6 tonnes is greater except for the VC6 configuration, which the two are then equal. Only the Vulcan Heavy (RL-10CX) beats New Glenn and only by
600 kg. And Vulcan numbers are for the fully expendable Vulcan. SMART reuse will take a bite out of payload, but by how much?

So that makes the point that with that payload mass available, will we see a megacapsule, or something different? We haven't seen a crew vehicle in the size range before (shuttle being much larger), so presents a new class range between existing capsules in the 4-8 person range, and a Starship class human carrier carrying a serious crowd of people. Plus at that size, you start to think a little about being flexible/modular/convertible enough between a minibus to LEO, capsule class (sub 10 people) with amenities/cargo, and something like Orion going to the moon and back.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #63 on: 05/25/2022 04:19 am »
Any idea how much money we are talking about?
Anyway, crewrating Vulcan includes crew-rating the BE-4s. This is definitely something BO might do on its own.
I'd expect BE4 to be designed from day one to launch crew so lot of rating work would've been done.

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #64 on: 06/01/2022 04:52 pm »
In the context of Project Jarvis not being a Starship clone with a midbay, will we still see a relatively conventional megacapsule, a biconic, or an upsized lifting body topping the New Glenn stack? Or has the relative silence of BO imply something very different?
I think the silence tells us very little.  We don't know how ambitious their plans are and how fast they intend to push their plans and how much money they have budgeted for it.
Silence is not definitive
A complete lack of hardware is.
No parachute tests
No water or land recovery tests
No images of aerodynamic test models
(We’re still with Asteroza wondering what the form will be, never mind the details.)

We don’t care how much is budgeted or planned.
We care about what they build.

Blue does have millions of square feet of buildings in which they could be hiding advanced development hardware, but long before anything flies, it has to come out for testing.
And what do we have?
A pathfinder first stage and a welded tank that people attribute to a groundbreaking development but just sits there by the coastline.
 
Any crew transport vehicle Blue develops will be seen years before its first flight, which says that it is no closer than several years in the future.
« Last Edit: 06/01/2022 08:08 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #65 on: 06/01/2022 11:31 pm »
For this size class, I wonder if a hybrid between the original version of the russian Kliper capsule concept and the X-37 might be interesting?

A chined capsule design, with a crew cabin in front, a midbay with payload doors and deployable solar panels/radiator, and a rear cabin with docking adapter. Midbay fits two modules, which can either be a transfer tunnel and open cargo rack for unpressurized cargo, or a small passenger or pressurized cargo cabin similar to SpaceLab modules that rode on the shuttle. For long distance runs, the open rack carries additional propellant tankage. Landing is by ram parafoil and deployable skids. Chines provide tankage space and places for OMS/launch escape thrusters. Sort of a diamond cross section enveloping a circular core.

It brings all the important parts home while having some mission specific flexibility.

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #66 on: 06/12/2022 01:04 am »
Personally? I expect Blue to put a really big capsule on top of New Glenn, but only after Jarvis is flying, well into the future. I'd love a biconic, but since this will be going on New Glenn, many years from now, and since they have partners that can do LEO trasport for them, I expect that they'll want some thing rated for lunar-reentrys. And seeing as this is Blue we're talking about, I expect them to get overly cautious about the lunar-reentrys, and just build a big 7m Apollo. Plus, I'm imagining Jeff Bezos on a stage saying, "How's that for Apollo on steroids Mike!", and it just feels in character for some reason.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Steve G

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #67 on: 06/13/2022 12:24 am »
Would Blue Origin even require a manned spacecraft? It's already partnering with Sierra Nevada and a possible manned Dream Chaser that could be adapted to fly on New Glenn. That's billions of dollars of investment when cheaper options are available.

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #68 on: 06/13/2022 02:21 am »
Would Blue Origin even require a manned spacecraft? It's already partnering with Sierra Nevada and a possible manned Dream Chaser that could be adapted to fly on New Glenn. That's billions of dollars of investment when cheaper options are available.

Whether Blue would develop a crewed spacecraft probably depends on the market and the mission. A crewed version of Dream Chaser is just notional at this point (although with their work on the resupply version for CRS-2, Sierra is obviously a lot closer than Blue is at the moment), and the costs to develop a human-rated version are unknown. If there is a lot of demand ex: for free-flyer missions and crew rotation and resupply to the Orbital Reef station, I could see Blue developing their own spacecraft to get a piece of that market. If demand isn't there, it won't might not make sense for Blue to develop a competitor for, say 2x resupply and 2x crew rotation missions each year, since there would be fewer missions to amortize the development cost.

In addition, while Dream Chaser might work out just fine for LEO, a spaceplane is less than optimal for lunar missions. If Blue has serious plans for crewed moon missions and cislunar space, it would make sense for them to develop their own spacecraft, probably a capsule, for that.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #69 on: 06/13/2022 03:05 am »
Would Blue Origin even require a manned spacecraft? It's already partnering with Sierra Nevada and a possible manned Dream Chaser that could be adapted to fly on New Glenn. That's billions of dollars of investment when cheaper options are available.


In addition, while Dream Chaser might work out just fine for LEO, a spaceplane is less than optimal for lunar missions. If Blue has serious plans for crewed moon missions and cislunar space, it would make sense for them to develop their own spacecraft, probably a capsule, for that.
Why capsule what about crew OTV between LEO and lunar orbit. Use LEO crews for earth return. An OTV is lot cheaper to develop than capsule for BLEO missions. The cost of refurbishing capsule would probably cover OTV return fuel. If long term goal is lunar colony then OTV would be using cheaper lunar ISRU fuel for return leg.

A OTV also doesn't have size limits of capsule, can be any size. Per passenger operational costs drop as it becomes bigger as dry mass per passenger tends to drop.






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« Last Edit: 06/13/2022 03:14 am by TrevorMonty »

Offline SweetWater

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #70 on: 06/13/2022 12:34 pm »
Would Blue Origin even require a manned spacecraft? It's already partnering with Sierra Nevada and a possible manned Dream Chaser that could be adapted to fly on New Glenn. That's billions of dollars of investment when cheaper options are available.

In addition, while Dream Chaser might work out just fine for LEO, a spaceplane is less than optimal for lunar missions. If Blue has serious plans for crewed moon missions and cislunar space, it would make sense for them to develop their own spacecraft, probably a capsule, for that.
Why capsule what about crew OTV between LEO and lunar orbit. Use LEO crews for earth return. An OTV is lot cheaper to develop than capsule for BLEO missions. The cost of refurbishing capsule would probably cover OTV return fuel. If long term goal is lunar colony then OTV would be using cheaper lunar ISRU fuel for return leg.

A OTV also doesn't have size limits of capsule, can be any size. Per passenger operational costs drop as it becomes bigger as dry mass per passenger tends to drop.

An OTV is certainly an option, but I think assuming an OTV will be cheaper than a capsule is a big assumption. You still need most of the component pieces of a capsule including the pressurized volume, life support, communications, guidance, propellant, engines, etc. As you point out, those *can* all be arbitrarily large, but New Glenn has a 7m diameter and there is no reason Blue couldn't build a 7m diameter capsule - although recovery ops would be.....interesting.

The classic OTV concept from NASA used aerobraking around the Earth to conserve fuel: http://www.astronautix.com/o/otv.html. If a Blue OTV did the same they would still need to include a heat shield - possibly a less robust one than would be needed for a complete re-entry and recovery, but it would probably need to be robust enough to survive multiple aerobrakings, otherwise it would have to be replaced or refurbished regularly on orbit, something which has never been done before and while I'm sure is possible, it would take time (and money) to work out the processes.

If you go the aerobraking route, you're building a craft that *partially* re-enters the Earth's atmosphere, and you're not saving much in weight or complexity. If you're going to forego aerobraking, you need to carry a lot more propellant.

Saying an OTV would use cheap ISRU propellant is handwaving the fact that no one has ever made ISRU propellant on the moon before, let alone stored industrial quantities of it or transferred it to a vehicle. Again, there's no reason to assume any of that is impossible, but it would take time (and money) to prove it out and make it work, and unless you believe that is possibly only with robots (I do not), it's going to be necessary to have crew on the lunar surface. If you're using an OTV for part of their trip there, you need to carry all the propellant for the trip from Earth to the moon and back until you have your ISRU ops ironed out.

IMO for the above reasons a capsule is probably the best option for moving humans around cislunar space until either there is an industrial quantity of ISRU propellant production on the moon or until there is cheap propellant available in quantity lifted from Earth to LEO.

Offline JayWee

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #71 on: 06/13/2022 12:43 pm »
IMO for the above reasons a capsule is probably the best option for moving humans around cislunar space until either there is an industrial quantity of ISRU propellant production on the moon or until there is cheap propellant available in quantity lifted from Earth to LEO.
What about Jarvis? BO's fully reusable upper stage? It makes no sense to put a capsule inside it.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #72 on: 06/13/2022 01:07 pm »
Yes if the upper stage can return and land, crew could ride in it without a capsule.  It would be a mini Starship. 

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #73 on: 06/13/2022 02:19 pm »
Yes if the upper stage can return and land, crew could ride in it without a capsule.  It would be a mini Starship.

This doesn't sound right to me. A reusable second stage will already be pretty weight/fuel constrained because it needs to do all the 2nd stage stuff and then deorbit and land. Returning with several tons of capsule, people, and fuel reserves required for human flight is probably a step too far.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #74 on: 06/13/2022 04:08 pm »
Yes if the upper stage can return and land, crew could ride in it without a capsule.  It would be a mini Starship.

This doesn't sound right to me. A reusable second stage will already be pretty weight/fuel constrained because it needs to do all the 2nd stage stuff and then deorbit and land. Returning with several tons of capsule, people, and fuel reserves required for human flight is probably a step too far.
You probably do three versions eventually of the upper stage,  The first being the cargo version.  The second is probably a tanker.  The third would be the crewed mini-starship.

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #75 on: 06/13/2022 05:36 pm »
IMO for the above reasons a capsule is probably the best option for moving humans around cislunar space until either there is an industrial quantity of ISRU propellant production on the moon or until there is cheap propellant available in quantity lifted from Earth to LEO.
What about Jarvis? BO's fully reusable upper stage? It makes no sense to put a capsule inside it.

Does it makes sense to have the capsule separate from New Shepard? One of Blue's defining traits is an overabundance of caution, and this is doubled when they're dealing with human lives (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). They'd much rather make 2 reusable orbital vehicles than one that's very slightly more dangerous. They won't do a crewed OTV for the same reason; they'd rather lug a lunar-rated heat shield out to LLO than use that performance for something interesting.
« Last Edit: 06/13/2022 05:42 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #76 on: 08/23/2022 06:44 pm »
A search under the umbrella SAA (SAA2-403403) lead me to this 2020 document which talks about a Blue Origin Crew Capsule:

https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/32252_SAA2-403403%20Annex%202%20Fully%20Execcuted.pdf

Quote from: 2020 SAA
This Annex shall be for the purpose of providing forced oscillation testing support in the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel (TDT) for the Blue Origin Crew Capsule. NASA LaRC will support Blue Origin in this development by providing aerodynamic testing services in order to produce static and dynamic stability data for the capsule.
« Last Edit: 08/23/2022 07:06 pm by yg1968 »

Online cwr

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #77 on: 08/23/2022 09:24 pm »
A search under the umbrella SAA (SAA2-403403) lead me to this 2020 document which talks about a Blue Origin Crew Capsule:

https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/32252_SAA2-403403%20Annex%202%20Fully%20Execcuted.pdf

Quote from: 2020 SAA
This Annex shall be for the purpose of providing forced oscillation testing support in the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel (TDT) for the Blue Origin Crew Capsule. NASA LaRC will support Blue Origin in this development by providing aerodynamic testing services in order to produce static and dynamic stability data for the capsule.

Just going from memory,
Blue Origin entered NASA's commercial crew competition with a biconic capsule.
They were eliminated from commercial crew when NASA down selected to SpaceX and Boeing.
I seem to recollect that whenever Blue was eliminated they then signed an SAA with NASA
for data on the biconic capsule.
Though I'm a touch surprised it was still in place in 2020.

Carl

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #78 on: 08/24/2022 03:24 am »
A search under the umbrella SAA (SAA2-403403) lead me to this 2020 document which talks about a Blue Origin Crew Capsule:

https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/32252_SAA2-403403%20Annex%202%20Fully%20Execcuted.pdf

Quote from: 2020 SAA
This Annex shall be for the purpose of providing forced oscillation testing support in the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel (TDT) for the Blue Origin Crew Capsule. NASA LaRC will support Blue Origin in this development by providing aerodynamic testing services in order to produce static and dynamic stability data for the capsule.

Just going from memory,
Blue Origin entered NASA's commercial crew competition with a biconic capsule.
They were eliminated from commercial crew when NASA down selected to SpaceX and Boeing.
I seem to recollect that whenever Blue was eliminated they then signed an SAA with NASA
for data on the biconic capsule.
Though I'm a touch surprised it was still in place in 2020.

Carl

It's a different agreement but it might be the same capsule.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2022 04:40 pm by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #79 on: 06/16/2023 03:01 am »
Seven US Companies Collaborate with NASA to Advance Space Capabilities:
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/seven-us-companies-collaborate-with-nasa-to-advance-space-capabilities

Quote from: NASA
Blue Origin is collaborating with NASA to develop integrated commercial space transportation capability that ensures safe, affordable, and high-frequency US access to orbit for crew and other missions.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #80 on: 06/16/2023 01:04 pm »
So, how many ways to orbit is NASA colloborating to get built?  They have Dragon II, and Starliner if it ever gets operational.  They may have Dreamchaser in the near future.  Any others?

Offline JCRM

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #81 on: 06/17/2023 03:05 pm »
So, how many ways to orbit is NASA colloborating to get built?  They have Dragon II, and Starliner if it ever gets operational.  They may have Dreamchaser in the near future.  Any others?
Starship and something from Blue.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #82 on: 06/17/2023 06:45 pm »
So, how many ways to orbit is NASA colloborating to get built?  They have Dragon II, and Starliner if it ever gets operational.  They may have Dreamchaser in the near future.  Any others?
Starship and something from Blue.

Blue had a biconic capsule concept they were working on back in the CCDev days. https://www.space.com/11457-blue-origin-commercial-crew-development.html

~Jon

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #83 on: 06/17/2023 07:19 pm »
Honestly I think Blue's inclusion is just for New Glenn. That article from NASA says the initiative, "is designed to advance commercial space-related efforts through NASA contributions of technical expertise, assessments, lessons learned, technologies, and data." There's no reason to think it's anything new.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #84 on: 06/18/2023 01:31 pm »
Honestly I think Blue's inclusion is just for New Glenn. That article from NASA says the initiative, "is designed to advance commercial space-related efforts through NASA contributions of technical expertise, assessments, lessons learned, technologies, and data." There's no reason to think it's anything new.

Agreed. In looking at all the awards made, I think this is for getting New Glenn certified for uncrewed cargo and manned flights in association with Dream Chaser to Orbital Reef, if it ever happens, and moon support missions.

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #85 on: 06/20/2023 02:38 am »
Honestly I think Blue's inclusion is just for New Glenn. That article from NASA says the initiative, "is designed to advance commercial space-related efforts through NASA contributions of technical expertise, assessments, lessons learned, technologies, and data." There's no reason to think it's anything new.

Agreed. In looking at all the awards made, I think this is for getting New Glenn certified for uncrewed cargo and manned flights in association with Dream Chaser to Orbital Reef, if it ever happens, and moon support missions.

It could be Starliner as well, Boeing has yet to announce the LV that they would like to use for the Commercial LEO Destinations program.

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #86 on: 06/20/2023 03:00 am »
A search under the umbrella SAA (SAA2-403403) lead me to this 2020 document which talks about a Blue Origin Crew Capsule:

https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/32252_SAA2-403403%20Annex%202%20Fully%20Execcuted.pdf

Quote from: 2020 SAA
This Annex shall be for the purpose of providing forced oscillation testing support in the Transonic Dynamics Tunnel (TDT) for the Blue Origin Crew Capsule. NASA LaRC will support Blue Origin in this development by providing aerodynamic testing services in order to produce static and dynamic stability data for the capsule.

The agreement above seems to expire on July 13, 2023. Se page 183 of this PDF:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/house_approps_action_domestic_nonfed_saas_active_as_of_9-30-2022.pdf

A search under the same umbrella SAA leads me to another unfunded SAA (Annex 4 of SAA2-403403) for a Blue Origin vehicle (it might not be the same vehicle):
https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/35387_SAA2-403403-4_Blue_Origin_R_A-4_Fully_Executed_032422.pdf

Interestingly, this document has slightly more information on Annex 4 of SAA2-403403:

Quote from: page 26 of the PDF
Annex Four to Reimbursable Umbrella Space Act Agreement Between the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Ames Research Center and Blue Origin, LLC to Support Blue Origin Commercial Space Transportation Development
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/house_approps_action_domestic_nonfed_saas_active_as_of_9-30-2022.pdf

Interestingly, Blue is doing an aerocapture study under Annex 8 of SAA2-403403:

Quote from: page 164 of the PDF
AEROCAPTURE TRADE STUDY - PHASE 1
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/house_approps_action_domestic_nonfed_saas_active_as_of_9-30-2022.pdf

Here is the Umbrella agreement (SAA2-403403) for their Commercial Space Transportation System:
https://www.nasa.gov/saa/domestic/27616_Fully_Executed_Reimbursable_Umbrella_Space_Act_Agreement_between_NASA_AMES_and_Blue_Origin_7.16.18.pdf
« Last Edit: 06/20/2023 03:43 am by yg1968 »

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #87 on: 07/12/2023 04:10 am »
Seven US Companies Collaborate with NASA to Advance Space Capabilities:
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/seven-us-companies-collaborate-with-nasa-to-advance-space-capabilities

Quote from: NASA
Blue Origin is collaborating with NASA to develop integrated commercial space transportation capability that ensures safe, affordable, and high-frequency US access to orbit for crew and other missions.

The Source Selection Statement has been released and it confirms that Blue is working on a crewed transportation system:
https://www.nasa.gov/jsc/procurement/ccsc2

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #88 on: 07/12/2023 10:33 am »
Annex 8 was the Lunar Clipper aerocapture study, got removed because I guess Blue didn't want it out there maybe? I will admit with the SLD selection and Cislunar Transporter announcement, I am a little confused as to what it was being proposed for. Maybe crew service module? But, that would seemingly be fit by the role of the Common Bus mentioned below.

Quote from: Source Selection description of Blue's human transport system
Crew Transportation System capability which includes its Space Vehicle, Common Bus, New Glenn launch vehicle

And the Common bus sounds like it could be Blue Ring? I remember them saying they wanted to use it for cargo transportation in addition to station module delivery for Orbital Reef, which confused me a little at the time.

Also we might get more details on the CCSC2, because the actual agreements were released with the first CCSC (example). So keep quiet (don't want them to force NASA to hide it) and a look out for them.

It is a interesting question of a. how big and b. how far will they go with this. But I can't help but be like, nah you're broadening yourself to far Blue. Jeff has billions of $, but that doesn't go that far being stretched thin over this many projects with a fat corporate structure weighing down from the top. So I hope they only have a small study team on this to be honest.

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #89 on: 07/13/2023 03:26 am »
Annex 8 was the Lunar Clipper aerocapture study, got removed because I guess Blue didn't want it out there maybe? I will admit with the SLD selection and Cislunar Transporter announcement, I am a little confused as to what it was being proposed for. Maybe crew service module? But, that would seemingly be fit by the role of the Common Bus mentioned below.

Quote from: Source Selection description of Blue's human transport system
Crew Transportation System capability which includes its Space Vehicle, Common Bus, New Glenn launch vehicle

And the Common bus sounds like it could be Blue Ring? I remember them saying they wanted to use it for cargo transportation in addition to station module delivery for Orbital Reef, which confused me a little at the time.

Also we might get more details on the CCSC2, because the actual agreements were released with the first CCSC (example). So keep quiet (don't want them to force NASA to hide it) and a look out for them.

It is a interesting question of a. how big and b. how far will they go with this. But I can't help but be like, nah you're broadening yourself to far Blue. Jeff has billions of $, but that doesn't go that far being stretched thin over this many projects with a fat corporate structure weighing down from the top. So I hope they only have a small study team on this to be honest.

SAAs have to be made public. So, yes I will be made public but heavily redacted again.

Online yg1968

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #90 on: 08/05/2023 09:18 pm »
See below concerning NASA working with Blue Origin in a space act agreement on a space transportation system:

[...] (it's at 41 minutes of the audio):

Quote from: the transcript
Steve Stich: [...] And then for our program, we're really excited to have our vehicles, you know, be there, potentially as the backbone for Angela's transportation system. Not only are we working with Boeing and SpaceX, but we've started [Space Act] agreements with other companies to have those transportation systems. Blue Origin, Sierra Space, and also, SpaceX as well with a, a derivative of perhaps Starship or Dragon. So we really want to see our vehicles carry forward. So perhaps, and it's really up to the companies to choose, but in some ways, if you utilize the vehicles we've developed, maybe that can lower the overall cost for them. Now, we have to look at how those vehicles fit into their, their mission needs, how many people that they need to carry, and where they put their space stations and so forth.

https://www.nasa.gov/johnson/HWHAP/300

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #91 on: 09/01/2023 03:58 pm »
https://twitter.com/jenakuns/status/1697442574099947530

Quote
Cool fact: the CSCC2 SAA's have listed near term planned Starship milestones such as:
- First Starship launch with payload Q1 2024
- Successful Starship Recovery Q3 2024
- Starship LEO crewed space station PDR Q4 2028
Also details to the Blue Origin orbital crew capsule timeline.

I think this is the SAA mentioned in the previous post?

Edit to add: a few years before we get to the more interesting milestones
« Last Edit: 09/01/2023 04:02 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #92 on: 09/01/2023 04:04 pm »
https://twitter.com/jenakuns/status/1697609238674366854

Quote
Going through the SAA document listed for Blue includes:
- Friction stir additive manufacturing of parts with lunar ISRU
- vacuum testing of Blue's prototype space vehicle Mk1
-SCIFLI LOFTID Imaging to inform Blue's own reusable upper stage

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/ntaa_quarterly_active_agreement_report_as_of_6-30-2023_cr_domestic.pdf

good stuff

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