Author Topic: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft  (Read 45875 times)

Offline Eric Hedman

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Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« on: 09/20/2018 12:07 am »
I found a line that piqued my curiosity on the Blue Origin website: "Make history with a suborbital flight, and you will receive early access to purchase tickets for our future orbital missions."

Does Blue Origin have a manned spacecraft in development yet for orbital flight for New Glenn to include a statement like this on their website?

Offline Markstark

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Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #1 on: 09/20/2018 12:30 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 02:02 am by Markstark »

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #2 on: 09/20/2018 12:36 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (complete speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn.
If New Glenn gets a reusable second stage and Starliner is supposed to be good for multiple flights, it would be interesting to see how much that could bring down the cost of manned flights.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #3 on: 09/20/2018 12:48 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #4 on: 09/20/2018 12:50 am »
Google biconic capsule. Its what they were doing 2012. No updates since, but NG is not being built for cargo only.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #5 on: 09/20/2018 12:56 am »
Google biconic capsule. Its what they were doing 2012. No updates since, but NG is not being built for cargo only.
I do remember that.  If they are still working on it, they are pretty good at keeping a secret.  Last year when I talked with a couple of Blue Origin employees at the EAA, they wouldn't answer any questions, that weren't already previously answered in public.

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #6 on: 09/20/2018 01:09 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Offline envy887

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #7 on: 09/20/2018 01:56 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #8 on: 09/20/2018 01:59 am »
If Blue Origin is open to putting someone else's manned spacecraft on their rocket (also complete speculation) a manned Dream Chaser could get them there a lot quicker than their own development.

Although Dream Chaser would be much quicker than their own design, Starliner would be much much quicker since it should be flying  crew next year. I am not sure how far along the crewed Dream Chaser design is considering that their current focus/contract is for a cargo version.

Well it's hard to say that Crew Dream Chaser would be much quicker without knowing the state of Blue's capsule design.

Very important point!

Do you guys recall having much foreknowledge about New Glenn before it was officially announced? That might be a good barometer for how good they are as a company with secrecy. Though I’m sure that would get increasingly difficult with as the company gets bigger.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #9 on: 09/20/2018 02:34 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.  Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #10 on: 09/20/2018 02:36 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Offline Markstark

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #11 on: 09/20/2018 02:47 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Personally, I'm thinking more of a partnership because I don't foresee Mr. Bezos selling his rocket company for decades to come. That's just my opinion though. ("hi you got a rocket!"... "hi you got a spacecraft!"... "let's be friends!"). Note: I'm aware there are plans to fly Starliner on Vulcan. But maybe that's not an exclusive
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 02:53 am by Markstark »

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #12 on: 09/20/2018 02:52 am »
Something along the same lines was stated during the last New Shepard pre-launch coverage. I asked a friend who works at Blue about a crewed spacecraft for New Glenn. They wouldn’t say. A “no comment” sort of response.

Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

I know at one time they looked at OSC but well it wasnt a match in terms of people or other things.  Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.  this is one POSSIBLE way

Personally, I'm thinking more of a partnership because I don't foresee Mr. Bezos selling his rocket company for decades to come. That's just my opinion though. ("hi you got a rocket!"... "hi you got a spacecraft!"... "let's collaborate!"). Note: I'm aware there are plans to fly Starliner on Vulcan. But maybe that's not an exclusive

that would not surprise me either. its less the companies style but they do that  see ULA ...

and friendships are "changeable" :)

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #13 on: 09/20/2018 02:52 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.

Blue Origin does not yet have an orbital launcher yet, and SpaceX, which does have reusable rockets and the largest operational rocket in the world, thinks that the BFR/BFS could be beyond their capabilities.

I don't think Blue Origin would try to make that leap. I think they will be more incremental.

Quote
Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

That would not be true for capsules, since they are tried and true technology, and that is what Boeing and SpaceX are building. If Blue Origin is working on a biconic spacecraft then they are pretty much on their own.

Since they don't have an orbital launcher yet for a spacecraft they probably feel no need to unveil what they are working on. AndI don't have a preference for what they could be building - I just hope they are working on a reusable spacecraft of any sort...  :D
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #14 on: 09/20/2018 02:56 am »
I wonder if watching what SpaceX is doing with BFS/BFR might also change what they are planning.  Some times it's better to be following a little behind to see what is working for others before betting the farm on an approach.

I am sure they are watching and will watch but my "guess" is that internal company thinking is 1) they dont have the money to build it (Boeing is a tad burned here with the Dreamliner) and 2) they dont think that the 2023 time frame is realistic.

now they maybe wrong...Boeing has been that before...the senior management made catastrophic mistakes with the dreamliner...but I am sure what has happened and is happening with Falcon9 first stage has changed their views of what "the next rocket" looks like and cost. 

Offline Lemurion

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #15 on: 09/20/2018 03:07 am »
I wouldn't be surprised if Blue at least looks into Starliner as an option, but as others have said, they need to get an orbital booster flying before they can put people on top of it. Besides, while rocket stages are not LEGO elements, capsules are closer to payloads and Starliner has already been designed for more than one different booster.

In the long run, I expect Bezos to get New Glenn flying and then decide what he wants to do with human spaceflight before making too many decisions about crew vehicles.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #16 on: 09/20/2018 03:14 am »
Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

The world's richest man did not achieve that metric without knowing how to acquire companies - see IMDB, Alexa, Audible, Zappos, Kiva and Whole Foods. Boeing is not unique in this regard.

Also, the world's richest man has a much more audacious goal in space than Boeing does, and no need to have a business model to achieve it. So I think it's unlikely what Jeff Bezos wants to do will intersect much with what Boeing thinks they can make money on.

Quote
Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.

Jeff Bezos has a reason for going to the Moon, and he doesn't have to make money doing it. Other than being a NASA contractor, Boeing has yet to have a business case for sending hardware or people to our Moon.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #17 on: 09/20/2018 03:59 am »
Maybe there’s a very well kept secret project in the works. Perhaps (pure speculation), Blue Origin has a good relationship with Boeing and they come to an agreement to launch Starliners on New Glenn. Starliner is already designed for reuse and land landings. Anyway, that would be an interesting turn of events (apologies if this type of speculation is in the “Lego rockets” territory we strive to avoid).

this would not surprise me.  when Boeing 1) needs expertise in some field they dont have or 2) wants to enter a market they are not in; they buy companies.    see Jeppesen and Embraear

The world's richest man did not achieve that metric without knowing how to acquire companies - see IMDB, Alexa, Audible, Zappos, Kiva and Whole Foods. Boeing is not unique in this regard.

Also, the world's richest man has a much more audacious goal in space than Boeing does, and no need to have a business model to achieve it. So I think it's unlikely what Jeff Bezos wants to do will intersect much with what Boeing thinks they can make money on.

Quote
Boeing is going to be a player in the lunar policy that will eventually come out.

Jeff Bezos has a reason for going to the Moon, and he doesn't have to make money doing it. Other than being a NASA contractor, Boeing has yet to have a business case for sending hardware or people to our Moon.

that is your opinion and I dont agree or dissagree with it completely

but to be clear RIGHT NOW there are only two real business cases concerning humans in space or near space that seem to be actually "maybe" valid.

the first is what Blue and Branson are pursuing and that is people in sub orbital flights.  I dont know if its valid...but both seem on the verge of giving it a try. 

the second is the pursuit of federal contracts for humans in space.  both Boeing and SpaceX seem to be going at that with all the vigor that their companies can muster...

Bigelow Axiom etc seem to think that there is a third, but that is more than anything else a derivation on "pursuit of federal contracts"

otherwise its just all "hope" which is good to keep alive, but it does not pay the bills :)

Offline butters

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Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #18 on: 09/20/2018 04:12 am »
Blue selling engines to ULA gives them early credibility with prospective customers, especially in the US government. They need that if they expect to go from suborbital to heavy lift overnight and have payloads ready to go. They're not selling engines to ULA because they need the money. They can't possibly believe that ULA's or Boeing's vision for space is aligned with theirs.

It would be entirely within character for Blue to be surprisingly far along on a skunkworks human spacecraft project which has been kept closely under wraps for several years. They do their own thing, they do it quietly, they do it well, and they do it at their own pace.

I think there's some truth to the recent reports of Bezos beginning to crack the whip a little to speed up development, but nothing nearly so desperate as to make them consider buying Starliner flights. Bezon knows that Blue don't have to match SpaceX anytime soon. They just have to beat everybody else to secure their role as the essential second option, and they're in a very strong position to accomplish that in-house.

Offline Tywin

Re: Blue Origin Space Capsule/Spacecraft
« Reply #19 on: 09/20/2018 04:37 am »
A old article about this thread :D



https://www.space.com/19584-blue-origin-quiet-plans-for-spaceships.html

I hope they really are working on this...
« Last Edit: 09/20/2018 04:38 am by Tywin »
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