Author Topic: Blue Moon Lunar Lander  (Read 304648 times)

Offline Steve G

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #840 on: 11/07/2023 11:27 am »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #841 on: 11/07/2023 02:30 pm »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?
The entire interested space community knows that you are correct. The PR hack that put this infomercial animation together did not. But hey, Jeff Bezos' Washington Post is unlikely to exert editorial control over a submission from Jeff Bezos' BO.

Offline Greg Hullender

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #842 on: 11/07/2023 04:17 pm »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?
The entire interested space community knows that you are correct. The PR hack that put this infomercial animation together did not. But hey, Jeff Bezos' Washington Post is unlikely to exert editorial control over a submission from Jeff Bezos' BO.
Nah. The writer, Christian Davenport, has written articles for the Post that were very critical of Blue Origin. One should never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. :-)

It does leave me wondering what the actual architecture for the lander is supposed to be. I agree that the astronauts are unlikely to be good at swimming through liquid hydrogen!

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #843 on: 11/07/2023 05:29 pm »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?
The entire interested space community knows that you are correct. The PR hack that put this infomercial animation together did not. But hey, Jeff Bezos' Washington Post is unlikely to exert editorial control over a submission from Jeff Bezos' BO.
Nah. The writer, Christian Davenport, has written articles for the Post that were very critical of Blue Origin. One should never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. :-)

It does leave me wondering what the actual architecture for the lander is supposed to be. I agree that the astronauts are unlikely to be good at swimming through liquid hydrogen!

No, having a tunnel that goes through the tanks is a proper Kerbal thing to do.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #844 on: 11/07/2023 05:35 pm »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?
The entire interested space community knows that you are correct. The PR hack that put this infomercial animation together did not. But hey, Jeff Bezos' Washington Post is unlikely to exert editorial control over a submission from Jeff Bezos' BO.
Nah. The writer, Christian Davenport, has written articles for the Post that were very critical of Blue Origin. One should never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. :-)

It does leave me wondering what the actual architecture for the lander is supposed to be. I agree that the astronauts are unlikely to be good at swimming through liquid hydrogen!
Christian Davenport is probably not the PR hack that put this infomercial animation together. Unless you think he has the graphics and Web skills? I speculate that he got it from someone else. It's really quite impressive except for being totally wrong in several places.

Offline Greg Hullender

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #845 on: 11/07/2023 06:06 pm »
I was under the impression that the mechanism to dock with Gateway would be part of the crew compartment so they wouldn't have to use a tunnel running through the propulsion tanks. Was I wrong or has something changed?
The entire interested space community knows that you are correct. The PR hack that put this infomercial animation together did not. But hey, Jeff Bezos' Washington Post is unlikely to exert editorial control over a submission from Jeff Bezos' BO.
Nah. The writer, Christian Davenport, has written articles for the Post that were very critical of Blue Origin. One should never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. :-)

It does leave me wondering what the actual architecture for the lander is supposed to be. I agree that the astronauts are unlikely to be good at swimming through liquid hydrogen!
Christian Davenport is probably not the PR hack that put this infomercial animation together. Unless you think he has the graphics and Web skills? I speculate that he got it from someone else. It's really quite impressive except for being totally wrong in several places.
The article attributes the animation to someone else, but I assumed he was working with what he was given. Davenport (in my view) is the one responsible for accuracy.

Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #846 on: 11/08/2023 11:49 am »
Then you don't understand how newspapers work, or least used to work. It's actually the editors that are responsible for ensuring the accuracy. Yes, the editors will often mock the reporters for not getting it correct, but its ultimately the editors jobs to get it accurate.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #847 on: 11/08/2023 02:15 pm »
Then you don't understand how newspapers work, or least used to work. It's actually the editors that are responsible for ensuring the accuracy. Yes, the editors will often mock the reporters for not getting it correct, but its ultimately the editors jobs to get it accurate.
Having spent several years working with hundreds of newspapers online, I can tell you that this is a ideal view of newspaper editors. Not really how they work in the wild

Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #848 on: 11/09/2023 11:06 am »
Then you don't understand how newspapers work, or least used to work. It's actually the editors that are responsible for ensuring the accuracy. Yes, the editors will often mock the reporters for not getting it correct, but its ultimately the editors jobs to get it accurate.
Having spent several years working with hundreds of newspapers online, I can tell you that this is a ideal view of newspaper editors. Not really how they work in the wild
Having a family member who actually did this for newspapers and having her explain that it was part of her job, I can tell you it's more than just the ideal view. Sorry you were associated with a bunch of slackers.

But yes, it would be nice if the graphics produced for this would have been more accurate.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2023 11:07 am by spacebleachers »

Offline yg1968

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Offline yg1968

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Offline yg1968

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Offline yg1968

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #852 on: 12/15/2023 12:38 am »
See below:

At 1h15m and 1h16m of this video, Jeff Bezos was asked if he would like to walk on the Moon (or Mars). He says that he thinks that the Moon will be reserved for professional astronauts during his lifetime (he added that he hopes to be wrong but that would be his bet if they were making bets on it).  I was disappointed in that answer. I am not sure why Blue couldn't have private astronaut missions to the lunar surface. He said that we could have factories on the Moon that are automated.

https://twitter.com/lexfridman/status/1735360877312778404

Offline yg1968

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #853 on: 02/27/2024 07:53 pm »
The image below is a capture from the video (at 2m20s):

https://twitter.com/steveg3215/status/1762575442093982157
« Last Edit: 02/27/2024 07:57 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #854 on: 02/27/2024 09:55 pm »
A comparison of the the Lockheed Martin video screencap with the Aviation Week & Space Technology cover view from nearly the opposite angle:


Offline DrTadd

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #855 on: 02/28/2024 01:03 pm »
What is the odds that BO will try a lunar landing with their own starter lander in 25?

I realize that BO has a lot of kuipner launches ahead of them, but I would think they could squeeze in some 'experimental operations' once NG is gaining cadence.

Would make a better use of a launch than just throwing up a mass simulator... although I would guess the Kupiner satellites are cheap enough they could be a reasonable substitute.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #856 on: 02/28/2024 02:45 pm »
What is the odds that BO will try a lunar landing with their own starter lander in 25?

I realize that BO has a lot of kuipner launches ahead of them, but I would think they could squeeze in some 'experimental operations' once NG is gaining cadence.

Would make a better use of a launch than just throwing up a mass simulator... although I would guess the Kupiner satellites are cheap enough they could be a reasonable substitute.

Zero. It's not anywhere near ready yet. I would not expect their lunar landing test until 27 ish.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #857 on: 02/28/2024 03:52 pm »
What is the odds that BO will try a lunar landing with their own starter lander in 25?

I realize that BO has a lot of kuipner launches ahead of them, but I would think they could squeeze in some 'experimental operations' once NG is gaining cadence.
<snip>
Amazon need all the lift capacity that BO and other launch providers can muster to get enough KuiperSats up to meet regulatory deployment deadline.

Offline DrTadd

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Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #858 on: 02/28/2024 04:00 pm »


Zero. It's not anywhere near ready yet. I would not expect their lunar landing test until 27 ish.
[/quote]

But that is the human lander. You don't think they have a different version to give a whirl and get practice before the 27 human lander program? THey do have that solar cell research and having access to real moon regiolith would be useful to that progam. Plus all the engineering know how to land anything would be useful up the road for the human lander. Same with any type of refueling 'engineering science' before 27.

I foresee issues with SX putting off engineering science with respect to their lander win... given that programs 25 time frame.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Blue Moon Lunar Lander
« Reply #859 on: 02/28/2024 04:15 pm »
Quote

Zero. It's not anywhere near ready yet. I would not expect their lunar landing test until 27 ish.

But that is the human lander. You don't think they have a different version to give a whirl and get practice before the 27 human lander program? THey do have that solar cell research and having access to real moon regiolith would be useful to that progam. Plus all the engineering know how to land anything would be useful up the road for the human lander. Same with any type of refueling 'engineering science' before 27.

I foresee issues with SX putting off engineering science with respect to their lander win... given that programs 25 time frame.

By "starter lander" I presumed you meant the single-launch Mark 1 cargo lander that was unveiled last year. It's not anywhere near ready to go. Maybe late 2026 at the earliest, but I suspect 27 is much more likely. Blue Origin has said that the Mk1 power systems, avionics, RCS and other systems are in common with their Mk2 human lander.
« Last Edit: 02/28/2024 04:16 pm by whitelancer64 »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

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