Author Topic: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)  (Read 8237 times)

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« on: 05/02/2016 09:23 am »
Just a weird idea, but I think, it would require just minimal changes to the New Shepard vehicle.

New Shepard has 3,300 m/s delta-V, and a surface pressure optimized BE-3 engine. With larger tanks, maybe even a bit wider (means better fuel to empty mass ratio), delta-v could be pushed above 5000 m/s.

That would be still not enough for Earth to reach the orbit, but on Mars, that's actually sufficiant to launch SSTO and land again, just with methalox. As a security feature, instead of that tourist capsule, take a Dragon 2 capsule as passenger cabin, and this capsule should just detach in case of an emergency (so the capsule would remain on top of New Shepard all the time, unless there is a malfunction and the crew needs to be rescued).

I guess, a lightweight and robust taxi that could deliver people and goods between a LMO station and a surface station, which just requires a flat paved launch & landing pad, and which is light enough to be sent up from earth as cargo in a falcon heavy. I see some applications for that.

This system would not be limited to martian applications. It would work on several other bodies too (not sure about Titan, but most of the bodies should be accessible (land and relaunch).

If BO optimizes it for easy repairability (have a pressurized hangar on ground, 3D-print most of the smaller parts), that could really work on mars.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2016 09:23 am by Hotblack Desiato »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #1 on: 05/02/2016 02:40 pm »
New Shephard 's TPS is insufficient and the aero surfaces would have little to no control authority in the low Pressure Mars atmosphere.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #2 on: 05/02/2016 02:47 pm »
However: overall, VTVL is scalable and works well on other planets as well as Earth. Companies like Masten, SpaceX and Blue Origin are positioned well to build landers that can land on other planetary bodies and launch again.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2016 12:41 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline koshvv

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #3 on: 05/08/2016 11:40 am »
New Shepard has 3,300 m/s delta-V, and a surface pressure optimized BE-3 engine. With larger tanks, maybe even a bit wider (means better fuel to empty mass ratio), delta-v could be pushed above 5000 m/s.

You need 4.55 times more fuel to increase dV from 3300 to 5000 m/s.
There is no way to do it with New Shepard, totally new vehicle is required.

Offline Lemurion

Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #4 on: 05/09/2016 05:16 pm »
New Shepard is optimized for taking a capsule up to the Karman line and then landing. The further you get from that mission, the less suitable it becomes.

Offline Barrie

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #5 on: 05/09/2016 05:31 pm »
Just this morning, I was wondering if Jeff Bezos might be persuaded to let his new employees, The Artists Formerly Known As Top Gear Presenters, put a shuttle-ized Reliant Robin on top of New Shepard.  I'd pay to watch that   ;D

Offline Lemurion

Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #6 on: 05/09/2016 05:47 pm »
Just this morning, I was wondering if Jeff Bezos might be persuaded to let his new employees, The Artists Formerly Known As Top Gear Presenters, put a shuttle-ized Reliant Robin on top of New Shepard.  I'd pay to watch that   ;D

Yes, yes, I'd love to see this. It's not practical, but it would be fantastic to see.

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #7 on: 05/10/2016 11:35 am »
Just this morning, I was wondering if Jeff Bezos might be persuaded to let his new employees, The Artists Formerly Known As Top Gear Presenters, put a shuttle-ized Reliant Robin on top of New Shepard.  I'd pay to watch that   ;D

Yes, yes, I'd love to see this. It's not practical, but it would be fantastic to see.



It's on youtube ;-)

Offline Jim

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #8 on: 05/10/2016 11:49 am »
and a surface pressure optimized BE-3 engine.

Why?  Mars is basically a vacuum


. As a security feature, instead of that tourist capsule, take a Dragon 2 capsule as passenger cabin,


Why?  That makes no sense.  Why is it more secure and why mix the two companies?

it would require just minimal changes to the New Shepard vehicle.

Snip

With larger tanks, maybe even a bit wider (means better fuel to empty mass ratio), delta-v could be pushed above 5000 m/s.


Those two statements are 100% contradiction.   And later you add "methalox" which makes it worse.

Another case of rockets are not legos
« Last Edit: 05/10/2016 11:53 am by Jim »

Offline Lar

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #9 on: 05/10/2016 11:57 am »
Ahem. "Rockets are not legos" is incorrect. It's "Rockets are not LEGO elements"!!!! Get it right, Jim! :)

Also, totally agree with your thesis, this seems like a rather fanciful mashup that would not work at all in real life. Not even a little bit.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline sanman

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #10 on: 05/10/2016 12:05 pm »
Anyone willing to simulate this in Kerbal Space Program?  ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #11 on: 05/10/2016 12:45 pm »
Ahem. "Rockets are not legos" is incorrect. It's "Rockets are not LEGO elements"!!!! Get it right, Jim! :)


Lower case "l" like kleenex, xerox, etc


Offline Lemurion

Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #12 on: 05/10/2016 02:13 pm »
Just this morning, I was wondering if Jeff Bezos might be persuaded to let his new employees, The Artists Formerly Known As Top Gear Presenters, put a shuttle-ized Reliant Robin on top of New Shepard.  I'd pay to watch that   ;D

Yes, yes, I'd love to see this. It's not practical, but it would be fantastic to see.



It's on youtube ;-)

I've seen that one :)

What I'd love to see is that Reliant Robin on top of the New Shepard propulsion unit. First 3-wheeled car past the Karman line.

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Re: New Shepard on Mars (maybe with spaceX Dragon 2)
« Reply #13 on: 05/17/2016 08:30 am »
reminds me a bit of this voyager-episode

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_37's_%28episode%29

they found an old ford floating in space. imagine their faces, if it had been a robin reliant.
« Last Edit: 05/17/2016 08:32 am by Hotblack Desiato »

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