Author Topic: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine  (Read 119146 times)

Online JayWee

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 983
  • Liked: 979
  • Likes Given: 1790
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #120 on: 09/03/2023 06:57 am »
Hmm. I think instead of assuming itís real people need to step back and ask - how likely is it that BO could uprate this engine by 50% with no change in the physical enginer dimensions or ancillary pumps and stuff?
Well,  Merlin went from 350kN to 845kN in the same package.

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14107
  • N. California
  • Liked: 13974
  • Likes Given: 1389
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #121 on: 09/03/2023 08:39 am »
Hmm. I think instead of assuming itís real people need to step back and ask - how likely is it that BO could uprate this engine by 50% with no change in the physical enginer dimensions or ancillary pumps and stuff?
Well,  Merlin went from 350kN to 845kN in the same package.
Over many iterations, indeed it did.

So what do YOU think then is the explanation for the much higher BE-3U thrust figure and subsequent retraction?  Spilled secret or typo?
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Robert_the_Doll

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1215
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #122 on: 09/03/2023 04:21 pm »
We might have to consider this to be a slip up in letting out information that Blue Origin was not yet ready to release about a future block upgrade to BE-3U or improvement.

As an example, thanks to Tory Bruno, we have known for some time that BE-4 has been performing above thrust and specific impulse, but Blue Origin officially only mentions the baseline 550,000 lbf (2.45 meganewton) number on its website.
Hmm. I think instead of assuming itís real people need to step back and ask - how likely is it that BO could uprate this engine by 50% with no change in the physical enginer dimensions or ancillary pumps and stuff?

The logical answer is they didnít and this is a typo.


Except for the past precedent I made note of, you would probably be correct.

Furthermore, you ignore the other precedent set by engines like Merlin which interestingly started around the same thrust level as BE-3 PM, then was upgraded over several block iterations, the most recent being Merlin 1D with 190,000 lbf SL and still maintain the same approximate dimensions as the original in terms of the turbopumps and other machinery.

Even though it is in a larger class of engine with a very different combustion cycle, Raptor not only increased thrust, but if we are to believe what Elon Musk and SpaceX have told us, they have gotten the engine smaller than the original design specification in just three iterations.

There are past examples that go even further back, such as RS-25 that started with 380,000 lbf SL and then was upgraded to where it is now at 424,000 lbf or a 13% increase while still maintaining the same dimensions.


Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47313
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 80124
  • Likes Given: 36283
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #123 on: 09/13/2023 04:46 pm »
Crosspost:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxI5lu_ObS3/

Quote
blueorigin
 #TeamBlue preparing BE-3U engines to power the second stage of New Glenn.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47313
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 80124
  • Likes Given: 36283
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #124 on: 10/12/2023 06:23 pm »
https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1712534223045734434

Quote
Bringing the rumble back to Rocket City! As everyone in the area heard, our BE-3U team successfully completed another duration engine hotfire test at Test Stand 4670 in Huntsville. Two BE-3U engines (each producing 160k pounds of thrust) will power the second stage of New Glenn.

Offline Robert_the_Doll

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1215
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #125 on: 10/12/2023 09:42 pm »
Did anyone notice?


Offline Rakietwawka2021

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Liked: 91
  • Likes Given: 142
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #126 on: 10/12/2023 10:50 pm »
Did anyone notice?

It was also there during first test

Offline Starshipdown

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 237
  • Space
  • Liked: 337
  • Likes Given: 349
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #127 on: 01/12/2024 05:37 am »
Now we know where the BE-3Us that were ATPed at Huntsville several months ago have gone to: They're installed on this pathfinder 2nd stage and will no doubt take part in the fueling tests with the booster. But it'll also be used for standalone testing of the stage with its BE-3Us undergoing one or more hotfire tests. You can see Mini-TE waiting outside patiently for it, too:

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #128 on: 02/04/2024 11:54 pm »
Now we know where the BE-3Us that were ATPed at Huntsville several months ago have gone to
how do you know these are those engines? Compaired to Vulcain, those nozzle extensions look unused.

Offline Robert_the_Doll

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1215
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #129 on: 02/05/2024 08:38 am »
Now we know where the BE-3Us that were ATPed at Huntsville several months ago have gone to
how do you know these are those engines? Compaired to Vulcain, those nozzle extensions look unused.

Because that is not how they test them:

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #130 on: 02/05/2024 01:57 pm »

Because that is not how they test them:
The question still stands.

Offline Robert_the_Doll

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1215
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #131 on: 02/05/2024 04:28 pm »

Because that is not how they test them:
The question still stands.

I will remind you of what you said:
Quote
compaired to Vulcain, those nozzle extensions look unused.

I showed you why.

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #132 on: 02/05/2024 09:20 pm »

Because that is not how they test them:
The question still stands.

I will remind you of what you said:
Quote
compaired to Vulcain, those nozzle extensions look unused.

I showed you why.

*hint* the question ends with a question mark
That does not answer the question "how do you know these are those engines?"

Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5180
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 2587
  • Likes Given: 2895
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #133 on: 02/05/2024 10:13 pm »
BE-3U's will burn hydrogen, which burns clean. 

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #134 on: 02/05/2024 11:01 pm »
BE-3U's will burn hydrogen, which burns clean.
As did Vulcain, but the nozzle extension still shows a heat patina (which, as RtD points out, is moot for these engines as they are tested without)

Offline jamesborr

  • Member
  • Posts: 5
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #135 on: 02/05/2024 11:19 pm »
BE-3U's will burn hydrogen, which burns clean.
As did Vulcain, but the nozzle extension still shows a heat patina (which, as RtD points out, is moot for these engines as they are tested without)

Big difference is that the Vulcain rocket engine is designed to work at sea level, whereas the BE-3's are designed to work at altitude. Testing a BE-3 with a vacuum-optimized nozzle at sea level would be highly problematic (i.e. An overexpanded nozzle allows air to enter through the side of a nozzle, disrupting the gas flow, and causing a process known as flow separation. This disruption results in a loss of efficiency, but the instability in the gas flow and resulting lateral forces can also damage the nozzle itself.)

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #136 on: 02/05/2024 11:44 pm »
BE-3U's will burn hydrogen, which burns clean.
As did Vulcain, but the nozzle extension still shows a heat patina (which, as RtD points out, is moot for these engines as they are tested without)

whereas the BE-3's are designed to work at altitude. T
yes, as noted, they are tested without

Offline Robert_the_Doll

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1215
  • Likes Given: 435
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #137 on: 02/06/2024 12:05 am »

Because that is not how they test them:
The question still stands.

I will remind you of what you said:
Quote
compaired to Vulcain, those nozzle extensions look unused.

I showed you why.

*hint* the question ends with a question mark
That does not answer the question "how do you know these are those engines?"

The simple reason is that 4670 is largely for rate testing production engines from Huntsville, not engine development. Development is largely the purview of Corn Ranch.

Offline JCRM

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 518
  • Great Britain
  • Liked: 316
  • Likes Given: 445
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #138 on: 02/06/2024 12:26 am »


The simple reason is that 4670 is largely for rate testing production engines from Huntsville, not engine development. Development is largely the purview of Corn Ranch.
So not known, but assumed?

Offline DrTadd

  • Member
  • Posts: 18
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Blue Origin : BE-3 and BE-3U Engine
« Reply #139 on: 02/06/2024 01:01 pm »
Test stand 4670 is big given it was built to test F1s.

Clearly all the work put into refurbishing it is done and the facility is open for business at this point.

It will give Blue the opportunity to have multiple single engine test stations which will give them the chance to crank out ATP'd motors for them and vulcan. Or better yet, test the NG 7 engine configuration before flight.

BO is building BE4s and BE3s. Given the ignitor type on this test, its clear that BO has the ability to produce the middle BE4 for NG that has to relight to land... assuming the outer 6 can be non-restart 'Vulcan' models.

I will be interesting to see how many BE4s they have in hand in the near future. CERT 2 Vulcan motors pretty much have to be done with ATP and on their way for integration onto the body.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1