... I assume Shawyer did not supply these equations in his papers as they are equations that should be known to microwave industry individuals skilled in the art. Anyway they are now in the public record....
Today i did the first test with the Emdrive (microwave oven magnetron and cooper frustum) The setup (magnetron and frusum) was suspended in a pendulum. I applied power for 40 Seconds with no visible thrust. Tomorrow will will try again with the magnetron on the small side. You have any suggestion for what should be the distance from the small side?After this i will adjust the power to the filament of magnetron and the frequency.To fine adjust the frequency i thought i can put 2 coils over the magnetron magnets to modify the magnetic field.My website;http://www.masinaelectrica.com/emdrive-independent-test/
...Of course, EW and @RODAL's calculations show the big end hotter....
Quote from: Notsosureofit on 05/14/2015 12:54 pm...Of course, EW and @RODAL's calculations show the big end hotter....Great post !!!My calculations only assume Maxwell's linear equations. EW has a dielectric inside and they measured very small forces and very low temperatures.Keep thinking and challenging all assumptions:Because the Chinese (Prof. Yang's) measurements with embedded thermocouples show the OPPOSITE of NASA Eagleworks, in agreement with your expectation: the small end is much hotterProf. Juan Yang's reported temperature vs. time measurements with embedded thermocouples throughout their EM Drive cavity (without a polymer dielectric insert) under atmospheric conditions, that, curiously, show the highest temperature at the center of the small base (trace #1), followed, at a significantly lower temperature by the temperature at the periphery of the big base (trace #5). Take a look at the temperatures measured by the thermocouple Trace #1
@Rodal: You say that you get a blow-up with your Df formula, and yeta) you agree that both lambdag1,2 are greater than lambda0 (because vg < c)b) you agree that, this being the case, it's mathematically impossible to get blow-up (denominator zero)Clarify please?
Have modified my Shawyer Df calculator and best Df scanner as per the derived Shawyer Df equation, using cutoff wavelength and guide wavelength as per microwave industry supplied equations. I assume Shawyer did not supply these equations in his papers as they are equations that should be known to microwave industry individuals skilled in the art. Anyway they are now in the public record.The scanner still sweeps the frequency range 0Hz to 10GHz but reports the frequency that generates a Df as close to 1 as possible but not over.The attached results are very interesting as the frequency needed to get the Df to just below 1 is very close to the Rf driving frequency used to generate Lambda0 or free wavelength in the selected medium.While I'm still testing the spreadsheet, which meets both of Shawyers boundary conditions, the results for my Flight Thruster design are looking to be very close to what I could build. Bit of dimension tweaking should get the Df 1 frequency to the 3.85GHz Shawyer used.Will post the spreadsheet after a bit more testing.
...You're guided wavelength equation is wrong, because this is for a rectangular wave guide (i.e., not even a rectangular cavity)...
I've been trying to wrap my brain around why a difference in phase results in a better thrust. Also, why couldn't EW obtain a thrust without a dielectric? I think we can all agree that in order for a net thrust, the momentum delivered to the larger end plate is smaller than that delivered to the smaller end plate. So where did the momentum go?Can momentum be delivered and removed from an orbiting electron?Take a simple two dimensional case with two atoms, one on the small end, one on the large end, each with their own electron orbiting at a the same angular frequency. If a force is applied to both of them, one in the direction of revolution and the other opposite, one of the forces would slow down the electron and the other would speed it up. The sped up electron requires a larger force to keep it tied to the nucleus and we have a net thrust. Perhaps this could help explain a couple things:The dielectric is composed of different elements, thus the electrons are orbiting at a different angular velocity. Using a constant frequency with different elements gives a certain degree of difference in the phase at which momentum is delivered to the electrons. Shawyer observed more losses with a dielectric because a magnetron outputs a signal at many phases and somehow 'matches' the orbital tendency of the electrons. I imagine the magnetic component of the wave could be contributing to an alignment of electrons which could amplify this miniscule effect. Any thoughts?
... Right now everything you are doing is wrong because you don't understand the physics. ...
Also, to the guy operating the microwave magnetron outside of the microwave: STOPAt best you are violating the laws of your local government's regulatory committee for the electromagnetic spectrum. At worst you will damage your body. At this frequency, the damage is somewhat insidious. Due to low water content of your skin, you don't feel the heat, but internal nerve endings can be damaged so that chronic phantom pain can appear. Sometimes days after exposure. Please STOP otherwise you will inevitably be reported to your government.
...I'm digging through this paper right now and it seems to offer an answer to your question. I'll re-read it several times, as it's looking to be the Tar Baby in the Brier Patch for me.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1011.4376.pdf
I had a look through the paper and am surprised the effect exists at all. Can someone explain where the opposite momentum goes?
Quote from: SeeShells on 05/14/2015 03:18 pm...I can feel your pain, understand your concern and yes it concerns me too.I'm digging through this paper right now and it seems to offer an answer. I'll re-read it several times, as it's looking to be the Tar Baby in the Brier Patch for me.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1011.4376.pdfI find it disheartening how much smaller is the effect explored in this "Tar Baby in the Brier Patch" paper and van Tiggelen's other papers, compared to what is claimed by the EM Drive researchers (particularly what is claimed by Shawyer and Prof. Yang regarding measured forces), and the fact that Shawyer and Prof. Yang do not use any dielectric polymer insert in their tests.
...I can feel your pain, understand your concern and yes it concerns me too.I'm digging through this paper right now and it seems to offer an answer. I'll re-read it several times, as it's looking to be the Tar Baby in the Brier Patch for me.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1011.4376.pdf
Quote from: TheTraveller on 05/14/2015 11:55 amHave modified my Shawyer Df calculator and best Df scanner as per the derived Shawyer Df equation, using cutoff wavelength and guide wavelength as per microwave industry supplied equations. I assume Shawyer did not supply these equations in his papers as they are equations that should be known to microwave industry individuals skilled in the art. Anyway they are now in the public record.The scanner still sweeps the frequency range 0Hz to 10GHz but reports the frequency that generates a Df as close to 1 as possible but not over.The attached results are very interesting as the frequency needed to get the Df to just below 1 is very close to the Rf driving frequency used to generate Lambda0 or free wavelength in the selected medium.While I'm still testing the spreadsheet, which meets both of Shawyers boundary conditions, the results for my Flight Thruster design are looking to be very close to what I could build. Bit of dimension tweaking should get the Df 1 frequency to the 3.85GHz Shawyer used.Will post the spreadsheet after a bit more testing.I've built and tested many microwave cavities over many years.You're guided wavelength equation is wrong, because this is for a rectangular wave guide (i.e., not even a rectangular cavity)You need to derive mode of frequency yourself (unless there is a paper somewhere) for a circular tapered cavity. There is no other way around it. I would start with Balanis - Advanced Engineering Electromagnetics as he derives a few examples for other topologies. Right now everything you are doing is wrong because you don't understand the physics. I would study that book from front to cover if I were you.