Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 - CRS-9 Dragon - NET July 18, 2016 - DISCUSSION  (Read 172474 times)

Offline Skyrocket

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2140
  • Frankfurt am Main, Germany
  • Liked: 313
  • Likes Given: 87
It looks like every Dragon at least since CRS-3, every Cygnus, and even the last HTV carried cubesats to ISS.  These days it would be unusual not to carry any.

Unfortunately Nanoracks is very secretive, which Cubesats they fly on which vehicle.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9651
  • Liked: 1372
  • Likes Given: 869
And this IDA is the 2nd unit built, correct?  With a 3rd in production?

Yes, the third one will be on CRS-14 in 2017.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32501.msg1450457#msg1450457
« Last Edit: 05/28/2016 02:32 AM by yg1968 »

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9414
  • UK
  • Liked: 1696
  • Likes Given: 183
It looks like every Dragon at least since CRS-3, every Cygnus, and even the last HTV carried cubesats to ISS.  These days it would be unusual not to carry any.

Unfortunately Nanoracks is very secretive, which Cubesats they fly on which vehicle.

How odd. You wouldn't think it was something that needed great secrecy.

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
  • US
  • Liked: 2858
  • Likes Given: 1723
It looks like every Dragon at least since CRS-3, every Cygnus, and even the last HTV carried cubesats to ISS.  These days it would be unusual not to carry any.

Unfortunately Nanoracks is very secretive, which Cubesats they fly on which vehicle.

The latest Jonathan's Space Report has quite a bit of detail on recent ISS cube sat launches and deliveries (lots of them carried up on the Cygnus flights).

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6366
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 5917
  • Likes Given: 1702
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

TASS reports “control system flaws” will delay next Soyuz from Jun 24 to Jul 7: http://bit.ly/1r38UxS
Could delay Cygnus & Dragon

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/738145362284666880

Offline MattMason

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Space Enthusiast
  • Indiana
  • Liked: 643
  • Likes Given: 1125
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

TASS reports “control system flaws” will delay next Soyuz from Jun 24 to Jul 7: http://bit.ly/1r38UxS
Could delay Cygnus & Dragon

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/738145362284666880

Would the delay be caused by the preferred pattern of visiting vehicles as well as the crew to berth them or are trained to berth them? They've had an interesting traffic pattern of late with up to six spacecraft attached.
"Why is the logo on the side of a rocket so important?"
"So you can find the pieces." -Jim, the Steely Eyed

Offline russianhalo117

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4503
  • AR USA / Berlin, DE / Moscow, RF
  • Liked: 1069
  • Likes Given: 583
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

TASS reports “control system flaws” will delay next Soyuz from Jun 24 to Jul 7: http://bit.ly/1r38UxS
Could delay Cygnus & Dragon

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/738145362284666880

Would the delay be caused by the preferred pattern of visiting vehicles as well as the crew to berth them or are trained to berth them? They've had an interesting traffic pattern of late with up to six spacecraft attached.
Delay is IDA payload and IDA EVA crew related, as the crew meant that was meant to install the destroyed IDA 1 is no longer on orbit and the new crew that is to fly on Soyuz MS(-01) received IDA-2 specific training in NBL for the entire set of planned and contingency EVA's. The current crews onboard due not have the IDA installation and contingency ground training the Next crew received. The onboard crews have a big deficit in IDA training that the next crew doesn't.

Offline mn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
  • United States
  • Liked: 158
  • Likes Given: 61

...

Delay is IDA payload and IDA EVA crew related, as the crew meant that was meant to install the destroyed IDA 1 is no longer on orbit and the new crew that is to fly on Soyuz MS(-01) received IDA-2 specific training in NBL for the entire set of planned and contingency EVA's. The current crews onboard due not have the IDA installation and contingency ground training the Next crew received. The onboard crews have a big deficit in IDA training that the next crew doesn't.

Does that crew have to be on board for IDA to launch? or can the IDA be launched and mounted temporarily until they arrive to do the 'installation'?


Offline jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2944
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 513
  • Likes Given: 363
It looks like every Dragon at least since CRS-3, every Cygnus, and even the last HTV carried cubesats to ISS.  These days it would be unusual not to carry any.

Unfortunately Nanoracks is very secretive, which Cubesats they fly on which vehicle.

The latest Jonathan's Space Report has quite a bit of detail on recent ISS cube sat launches and deliveries (lots of them carried up on the Cygnus flights).

Yes, but I often don't know what's on board until they actually get deployed.
Certainly Nanoracks is not very open about what they manifest. I don't know exactly what's on the OA-6
external deployer that's docked to ISS right now (cubesats will be ejected when Cygnus departs)
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline cuddihy

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 831
  • Liked: 152
  • Likes Given: 165
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

TASS reports “control system flaws” will delay next Soyuz from Jun 24 to Jul 7: http://bit.ly/1r38UxS
Could delay Cygnus & Dragon

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/738145362284666880

Would the delay be caused by the preferred pattern of visiting vehicles as well as the crew to berth them or are trained to berth them? They've had an interesting traffic pattern of late with up to six spacecraft attached.
Delay is IDA payload and IDA EVA crew related, as the crew meant that was meant to install the destroyed IDA 1 is no longer on orbit and the new crew that is to fly on Soyuz MS(-01) received IDA-2 specific training in NBL for the entire set of planned and contingency EVA's. The current crews onboard due not have the IDA installation and contingency ground training the Next crew received. The onboard crews have a big deficit in IDA training that the next crew doesn't.

Sometimes I think they really make this harder than it needs to be. Yes, the training is important...but is putting the IDA on with a computer-controlled robot arm, especially when simulation (even on orbit) is very advanced, really that hard? Especially when virtually every move is prescripted and monitored fromthe ground? And the IDA 1 crew could sit in mission control and provide verbal "astronaut eyes" assistance to ISS?

NASA will never get to MARS this way.

Offline Mike_1179

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 559
  • New Jersey
  • Liked: 226
  • Likes Given: 50
Has more to do with training for contingencies than training for "everything goes right so all they have to do is stick it on a robot arm"

There are likely failure modes that could require a contingency EVA. EVAs are dangerous, you don't want to be out there longer than you have to. You want those performing EVA functions to have practiced them in the pool before asking them to do it the first time in orbit.

Offline MattMason

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Space Enthusiast
  • Indiana
  • Liked: 643
  • Likes Given: 1125

...

Delay is IDA payload and IDA EVA crew related, as the crew meant that was meant to install the destroyed IDA 1 is no longer on orbit and the new crew that is to fly on Soyuz MS(-01) received IDA-2 specific training in NBL for the entire set of planned and contingency EVA's. The current crews onboard due not have the IDA installation and contingency ground training the Next crew received. The onboard crews have a big deficit in IDA training that the next crew doesn't.

Does that crew have to be on board for IDA to launch? or can the IDA be launched and mounted temporarily until they arrive to do the 'installation'?

The IDA is attached to the old Shuttle-era docking port on PMA 2. This will be done by the ISS robotic arm, pulling it from Dragon's trunk. That means that Dragon has only a 30-day window (its normal orbit lifetime) before the IDA install-trained crew can arrive and complete that work, starting with the removal from the trunk. I believe the answer to my earlier question suggests that the IDA removal and installation cannot be done by the current crew but only the next group.

Previous EVAs were done to install several electrical and data lines along the nodes that will be patched into the IDAs. Additional EVAs will be needed to attach these lines to bring the IDA online, which will also require the training of the next crew.

The ISS has yet to move PMA 3 to the zenith of the forward node, just above PMA 2, where IDA 2 will go. PMA 3 is the backup docking port if memory serves and will IDA 3 once its ready later next year.
"Why is the logo on the side of a rocket so important?"
"So you can find the pieces." -Jim, the Steely Eyed

Offline MattMason

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
  • Space Enthusiast
  • Indiana
  • Liked: 643
  • Likes Given: 1125
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

TASS reports “control system flaws” will delay next Soyuz from Jun 24 to Jul 7: http://bit.ly/1r38UxS
Could delay Cygnus & Dragon

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/738145362284666880

Would the delay be caused by the preferred pattern of visiting vehicles as well as the crew to berth them or are trained to berth them? They've had an interesting traffic pattern of late with up to six spacecraft attached.
Delay is IDA payload and IDA EVA crew related, as the crew meant that was meant to install the destroyed IDA 1 is no longer on orbit and the new crew that is to fly on Soyuz MS(-01) received IDA-2 specific training in NBL for the entire set of planned and contingency EVA's. The current crews onboard due not have the IDA installation and contingency ground training the Next crew received. The onboard crews have a big deficit in IDA training that the next crew doesn't.

Sometimes I think they really make this harder than it needs to be. Yes, the training is important...but is putting the IDA on with a computer-controlled robot arm, especially when simulation (even on orbit) is very advanced, really that hard? Especially when virtually every move is prescripted and monitored fromthe ground? And the IDA 1 crew could sit in mission control and provide verbal "astronaut eyes" assistance to ISS?

NASA will never get to MARS this way.

To reinforce a later answer:

Ask Gene Cernan how "simple" his Gemini 9 EVA turned out to be. Because we were new to the notion of not fighting ourselves in microgravity on a spacewalk, Cernan exhausted himself and nearly caused his ELCSS resources to fail.

Since then, all EVAs are trained in a large water pool to simulate not only the weightlessness but how certain tools and restraints work (or don't) to get a task done. EVA training for even the tiniest action is repeated over and over so not only the work is done, but to ensure the crew never, ever, forget to do something such as connect their safety tethers, which could make a Very Bad Day for that astronaut and the space program if they float away. No one wants the astronauts to have to use their SAFER emergency jet packs.

Just because a crew is "up there" doesn't make them qualified to do all the work that comes out them out of schedule.
"Why is the logo on the side of a rocket so important?"
"So you can find the pieces." -Jim, the Steely Eyed

Online Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10176
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 7036
  • Likes Given: 4817
Probably wrong topic  but as the number of people that are off earth goes up (see for example ULA projections that lead to hundreds or thousands of people working off earth in 30 years) will this need to practice every possible contingency shift or fade?  I would think it would have to, eventually. (if you consider the 1M population projection for Mars some long time out...) Or we'll run out of pools.

I would think that NASA would want to use ISS to test some of this, can stuff be done without having exhaustively planned out everything in advance?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline cuddihy

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 831
  • Liked: 152
  • Likes Given: 165
Has more to do with training for contingencies than training for "everything goes right so all they have to do is stick it on a robot arm"

There are likely failure modes that could require a contingency EVA. EVAs are dangerous, you don't want to be out there longer than you have to. You want those performing EVA functions to have practiced them in the pool before asking them to do it the first time in orbit.

Got it...but what sort of contingency requires an emergency EVA when installing the IDA? Is there actually nowhere to store it until the trained crew arrives a month later?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32333
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 10991
  • Likes Given: 327

Got it...but what sort of contingency requires an emergency EVA when installing the IDA? Is there actually nowhere to store it until the trained crew arrives a month later?

it doesn't latch on or there is an interference with a connector.  The only place to store it is in the operational location or the Dragon.

Offline rpapo

  • Cybernetic Mole
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1174
  • Michigan, USA
  • Liked: 604
  • Likes Given: 465

Got it...but what sort of contingency requires an emergency EVA when installing the IDA? Is there actually nowhere to store it until the trained crew arrives a month later?

it doesn't latch on or there is an interference with a connector.  The only place to store it is in the operational location or the Dragon.
And it can't stay on the Dragon after it leaves, since it's other "home" is the trunk, and the trunk will be disposed of.

They ought to have set up a large velcro pad on the outside of the ISS to park things on...   ::)
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Offline the_other_Doug

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2726
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Liked: 1782
  • Likes Given: 3387
The IDA could be "stored" in extreme emergency on the end of the RMS.  The issue is that you don't want to do that for a long time.  The mating end of the IDA isn't designed for indefinite storage in such a thermal environment, for one thing.  And the RMS isn't designed to hold that amount of mass against a lot of the station maneuvers, for another.

In re EVAs -- some EVAs are designed and practiced as you would choreograph an opera.  Every move is pre-thought-out, every tool identified for use at specific times and in specific ways.  However, many of a given ISS crew have what is called general EVA training; they know how to operate the EVA equipment safely, and how to maneuver around the outside of the station.  They have been given training in many common tasks, including installation of MMOD barriers and replacement of a variety of commonly replaced external modules.

Specific operations, like the installation and emergency troubleshooting of the IDAs, is in the former category, and you'd want the crewmembers specifically trained to these tasks to undertake them.  But if an external power or cooling module or something goes bad, there are always people onboard the station who have been trained in EVA procedures and can make "contingency EVAs" to repair such issues without having been through a training process to choreograph them.

What with the now-extensive ability to send up printed and visual materials to support operations, it's not quite as essential as it used to be to detail-train crews in some operations before they are launched to the station.  But operating something as complex as the ISS is a series of trade-offs and compromises, and if management feels it's far better to have the ground-trained IDA crew on the station before launching the IDA, then that's what will happen...
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8636
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2681
  • Likes Given: 6980
Dextre... Here, hang to to this for a bit... :)
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline sewebster

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 294
  • British Columbia
  • Liked: 186
  • Likes Given: 133
Dextre... Here, hang to to this for a bit... :)

It's not mine, I was just holding it for a friend.

Tags: