Author Topic: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion  (Read 667825 times)

Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1160 on: 04/21/2016 12:08 pm »
What is your opinion about using a refurbish first stage for the inflight abort test ?

The CRS-8 recovered stage will undergo inspection and several test firings before being flown again, likely on a payload flight, in 2 or 3 months.

I recall that the in-flight abort test will not attempt any kind of booster recovery, so it would be a waste to use the CRS-8 booster or any of the first recovered stages for this purpose. The F9R test stage mentioned, which only 3 engines, was last seen at Vandenburg base, used to test out tanking at the SpaceX launch pad there some time ago.
Exactly.  The abort will be at near max-Q.  It's hard to imagine a booster in the transonic range surviving exposing a blunt nose with no control authority (part of the abort is shutting down the engines.)

NASA expressed before it's will to creat a simulation as close as possible from what will be a maned mission. A real stage with a dummy stage 2 with an FTS would be great in this case.

If they want to recover stage 1,  they'll have to use a fairing for the aerodynamics of the top of the stage 1 with , at least, an interstage to protect it.

Offline bstrong

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1161 on: 05/12/2016 03:25 pm »
http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/05/boeing-starliner-delayed-2018/

Quote
A spokesman for SpaceX told Ars Wednesday night that the company remains on track for crewed missions in 2017.

Online Ike17055

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1162 on: 05/12/2016 03:49 pm »
Space was also "on track" for a Falcon Heavy launch to take place several years ago...delays occur and SpaceX is certainly no stranger to them, and probably will be reaquainted with them several more times, perhaps on commercial crew (again). A lot can happen and first launch of crew is still a long way off.  gloating over anyone's delays or difficulties is juvenile and unproductive.

Offline abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1163 on: 05/12/2016 03:54 pm »
gloating over anyone's delays or difficulties is juvenile and unproductive.
Who's gloating?
« Last Edit: 05/12/2016 03:54 pm by abaddon »

Offline bstrong

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1164 on: 05/12/2016 03:55 pm »
Space was also "on track" for a Falcon Heavy launch to take place several years ago...delays occur and SpaceX is certainly no stranger to them, and probably will be reaquainted with them several more times, perhaps on commercial crew (again). A lot can happen and first launch of crew is still a long way off.  gloating over anyone's delays or difficulties is juvenile and unproductive.

I don't know what you are calling gloating. I just posted the most recent public statement from SpaceX about Crew Dragon schedule, sans commentary. SpaceX made that statement because they were asked the question.

I am also skeptical of 2017 for a SpaceX flight, but it's worth noting their publicly reaffirmed plan of record.

Online wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1165 on: 05/12/2016 04:46 pm »
Space was also "on track" for a Falcon Heavy launch to take place several years ago...delays occur and SpaceX is certainly no stranger to them, and probably will be reaquainted with them several more times, perhaps on commercial crew (again). A lot can happen and first launch of crew is still a long way off.  gloating over anyone's delays or difficulties is juvenile and unproductive.

I don't know what you are calling gloating. I just posted the most recent public statement from SpaceX about Crew Dragon schedule, sans commentary. SpaceX made that statement because they were asked the question.

I am also skeptical of 2017 for a SpaceX flight, but it's worth noting their publicly reaffirmed plan of record.

They are checking off some of the to do list in the engineering department too.  So resources should be able to focus on less things. 

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 

F9 is essentially out of the way.
FH should be reasonably along it's way now.  After that flies that leaves Dragon2 as the next big development.

There is $2.6 billion riding on Dragon2. I think SpaceX should minimize internal pet projects like Dragon Fly and paper rockets and spacecraft for Mars.  There is time for that later.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1166 on: 05/12/2016 04:50 pm »
SpaceX, and Elon Musk in particular, cannot function unless they're constantly at the edge of the possible.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Escapist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1167 on: 05/12/2016 05:11 pm »

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 


At some point we're all going to have to stop thinking of SpaceX as a small company. They have ~5000 employees now. ULA has ~3400 according to their own website. ESA has ~2000 employees. NASA has ~18,000 plus contractors.

SpaceX is rapidly becoming a large company, which probably means they have more resources than at least I usually default to thinking they do.

Online RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1168 on: 05/12/2016 05:19 pm »
Space was also "on track" for a Falcon Heavy launch to take place several years ago...delays occur and SpaceX is certainly no stranger to them, and probably will be reaquainted with them several more times, perhaps on commercial crew (again). A lot can happen and first launch of crew is still a long way off.  gloating over anyone's delays or difficulties is juvenile and unproductive.

I don't know what you are calling gloating. I just posted the most recent public statement from SpaceX about Crew Dragon schedule, sans commentary. SpaceX made that statement because they were asked the question.

I am also skeptical of 2017 for a SpaceX flight, but it's worth noting their publicly reaffirmed plan of record.

They are checking off some of the to do list in the engineering department too.  So resources should be able to focus on less things. 

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 

F9 is essentially out of the way.
FH should be reasonably along it's way now.  After that flies that leaves Dragon2 as the next big development.

There is $2.6 billion riding on Dragon2. I think SpaceX should minimize internal pet projects like Dragon Fly and paper rockets and spacecraft for Mars.  There is time for that later.

There's a lot of co-dependence between Falcon 9 development and FH development, but there's no reason why Dragon 2 development should be held up by any delays from Falcon.

Online wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1169 on: 05/13/2016 12:08 am »

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 


At some point we're all going to have to stop thinking of SpaceX as a small company. They have ~5000 employees now. ULA has ~3400 according to their own website. ESA has ~2000 employees. NASA has ~18,000 plus contractors.

SpaceX is rapidly becoming a large company, which probably means they have more resources than at least I usually default to thinking they do.

I consider 100,000 a large company.  But I get your point. 

Comparing employee count between those 3 companies is not valid since SpaceX is vertically integrated.  Many of the jobs that ULA needs to support a launch vehicle are with subcontractors. 
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline spacenut

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1170 on: 05/13/2016 01:51 am »
Yes, that is right.  Subcontractors for ULA and ESA.  ULA uses Russian engines on Atlas V, so they don't make them.  Also The RL-10's and the Delta IV engines are not made by ULA.  By using a lot of sub-contractors, it seems their costs are higher because all the sub's have to make a profit.  Who knows what the sub-contractor profits are for what they make.  SpaceX being vertically integrated can watch the costs up and down the chain and still make a profit at a lower overall cost. 

Now, how far along is the Dragon 2?  Do they have people who are doing nothing but working on Dragon 2 or do they spend some time working on other SpaceX projects? 

Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1171 on: 05/13/2016 02:00 am »

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 


At some point we're all going to have to stop thinking of SpaceX as a small company. They have ~5000 employees now. ULA has ~3400 according to their own website. ESA has ~2000 employees. NASA has ~18,000 plus contractors.

SpaceX is rapidly becoming a large company, which probably means they have more resources than at least I usually default to thinking they do.

I consider 100,000 a large company.  But I get your point. 

Comparing employee count between those 3 companies is not valid since SpaceX is vertically integrated.  Many of the jobs that ULA needs to support a launch vehicle are with subcontractors.

Google got 61k employees. Highest valued public company as of yesterday at about $500b. tiny.

Offline JamesH65

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1172 on: 05/13/2016 05:55 am »

I think that for a small company they've been busying on too many development projects. F9, F9v1.1 and later the full thrust and now recovery operations. 


At some point we're all going to have to stop thinking of SpaceX as a small company. They have ~5000 employees now. ULA has ~3400 according to their own website. ESA has ~2000 employees. NASA has ~18,000 plus contractors.

SpaceX is rapidly becoming a large company, which probably means they have more resources than at least I usually default to thinking they do.

I consider 100,000 a large company.  But I get your point. 

Comparing employee count between those 3 companies is not valid since SpaceX is vertically integrated.  Many of the jobs that ULA needs to support a launch vehicle are with subcontractors.

Google got 61k employees. Highest valued public company as of yesterday at about $500b. tiny.

Quite. You don't need to be big to achieve great things.

5000 employees at SpaceX should be plenty for what they are trying to do right now. Vertical integration doesn't just mean that you make stuff yourself, it also means that you don't need many staff to deal with subcontractors - they can actually be working on stuff.

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1173 on: 05/18/2016 06:42 pm »
Apologies if this has already been hashed and rehashed, but does anyone have even vague estimates for the mass breakdown of the Dragon V2? The quoted dry mass is 6.4 tonnes, and that includes the trunk, the docking connector, the heat shield, the aeroshell, the pressure vessel, the Dracos and SuperDracos, and the onboard hypergol tanks. Do we know if it also includes the crew cabin and amenities, like seats, screens, controls, life support, and so forth?

Offline Scylla

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1174 on: 06/23/2016 06:58 pm »
Backbone of Crew Dragon, the crew-carrying version of Dragon 2 spacecraft, undergoing structural load testing
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/746052988964200448
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline rpapo

Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1175 on: 06/24/2016 12:01 am »
Am I seeing things, or is the side hatch much bigger than it was in the reveal nearly two years ago?
Following the space program since before Apollo 8.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1176 on: 06/24/2016 12:04 am »
Am I seeing things, or is the side hatch much bigger than it was in the reveal nearly two years ago?

It looks about the same. Keep in mind here that you aren't seeing the bottom 'service section' with propellant tanks, lined around the base of the Dragon, so the hatch looks bigger.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1177 on: 06/24/2016 03:34 am »
Is it time to rename this thread, "Crew Dragon Updates and Discussion"? The "V2" terminology appears to have disappeared entirely from Musk's/ SpaceX's lexicon.

Like the purple hatch BTW, very festive.

Offline OnWithTheShow

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1178 on: 06/24/2016 12:34 pm »
Looks slightly lengthened, no? Maybe the pad abort told them they needed slightly more SuperDraco fuel?

Offline MattMason

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Re: SpaceX Dragon V2 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1179 on: 06/24/2016 12:43 pm »
Is it time to rename this thread, "Crew Dragon Updates and Discussion"? The "V2" terminology appears to have disappeared entirely from Musk's/ SpaceX's lexicon.

Like the purple hatch BTW, very festive.

I agree with a caveat.

SpaceX or NASA's captions used "Dragon 2" as a generic family name of the vehicles. "Crew Dragon" and "Red Dragon" are, thus, variants of the model. The whole "V2" too-soon mess looks like it has changed how SpaceX itself refers to the vehicle and we should follow their lead.

So if this thread is to discuss any and all Dragon 2 spacecraft types, "SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion" it should be. No "V."
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