Author Topic: Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread  (Read 451586 times)

Offline john smith 19

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Another tweet from jeff

Markusic: reusability follows after you demonstrate you can get into space first. Considering it for the follow-on Beta vehicle; side boosters will separate at a fairly low altitude, and looking at means to do parachute recovery of them. #ISDC2018
So this is yet another small LOX/RP1 ELV in the Electron class?

It's always great to give more rocket engineers hands on experience of engine and LV design and the actual trades involved.

MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline TrevorMonty

Another tweet from jeff

Markusic: reusability follows after you demonstrate you can get into space first. Considering it for the follow-on Beta vehicle; side boosters will separate at a fairly low altitude, and looking at means to do parachute recovery of them. #ISDC2018
So this is yet another small LOX/RP1 ELV in the Electron class?

It's always great to give more rocket engineers hands on experience of engine and LV design and the actual trades involved.
Alpha is 1000kg to LEO vs Electron 225kg so lot bigger. Both fully ELV. The Beta with reusable boosters is 4t, not sure if 4t is with expendable or reuseable boosters, given it is made up of 3xAlpha boosters I'd say 4t is expendable.

No word on Alpha pricing but Relativity 1250kg  Terran1 is listed at $10m or $8000/kg.  I'd guess  $8-9m for Alpha and $20m for expendable Beta.

When these 1000kg class LVs start flying LaunchOne will need to drop is 500kg $10m? price along with all other smaller LVs eg Electron, Vector. The smaller LVs don't have to match bigger LVs on $/kg to orbit but have to be significantly cheaper per launch to justify buying dedicated launch.

Alpha and Terran1 are big enough to take a lot business from VEGA and PSLV while Beta will compete directly with them.
« Last Edit: 06/02/2018 08:47 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline john smith 19

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Alpha is 1000kg to LEO vs Electron 225kg so lot bigger. Both fully ELV. The Beta with reusable boosters is 4t, not sure if 4t is with expendable or reuseable boosters, given it is made up of 3xAlpha boosters I'd say 4t is expendable.

No word on Alpha pricing but Relativity 1250kg  Terran1 is listed at $10m or $8000/kg.  I'd guess  $8-9m for Alpha and $20m for expendable Beta.

When these 1000kg class LVs start flying LaunchOne will need to drop is 500kg $10m? price along with all other smaller LVs eg Electron, Vector. The smaller LVs don't have to match bigger LVs on $/kg to orbit but have to be significantly cheaper per launch to justify buying dedicated launch.

Alpha and Terran1 are big enough to take a lot business from VEGA and PSLV while Beta will compete directly with them.
The 3 things that count for any partially or fully expendable LV are
1) Track record
2) Payload & orbit.
3) Cost
 A vehicle with zero track record has a lot to prove. Every vehicle that's launched even once has more track record than it does. If it can't lift the payload a customer needs to the orbit the customer wants it's irrelevant. If it can't do this at a price the customer can afford it's not affordable.

In the US small launchers are the Pegasus XL, but people should look at how often its actually launched in the last say 10 years.

You have to be a lot cheaper before not going as a secondary payload looks cheap.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline gongora

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SSTL awards Launch Services Agreement to Firefly
Quote
Mon, 04 Jun 2018
CEDAR PARK, Texas, June 1, 2018

Firefly Aerospace, Inc. (Firefly), a developer of orbital launch vehicles for the small to medium satellite market, announced today the execution of a Launch Services Agreement (LSA) with Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) for use of the Firefly Alpha launch vehicle.

“Firefly is pleased to enter into an LSA with SSTL to provide up to six Alpha launches from 2020 through 2022,” said Firefly CEO Dr. Tom Markusic. “The Alpha launch vehicle allows for deployment of SSTL satellites as a primary payload to their preferred orbit, rather than flying as a secondary payload on a larger launch vehicle.”

Sarah Parker, SSTL Managing Director, said, “SSTL is delighted to be the first Firefly Aerospace customer to sign an LSA. Our new partnership with Firefly assures SSTL customers convenient, dependable access to space, with certainty of launch opportunities. Starting with CARBONITE-4 in early 2020, we look forward to launching many successful missions together.”

Dr. Max Polyakov, Firefly Co-founder, added that, “The Firefly Alpha program is on schedule for our first launch in the third quarter of 2019. Our mass production processes will enable eight Alpha flights in 2020 and eighteen flights in 2021. This launch cadence will allow Firefly to support missions from SSTL and the many other customers that have expressed interest in the Alpha launch vehicle. Firefly is excited to join with SSTL in opening space to a new generation of entrepreneurs.”

Space News article

Offline ringsider

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That is a big leap of faith for SSTL, the price must be amazing.

Just noticed that Firefly's VCLS contract  was "terminated for cause" (contract #NNK15LB19C).
« Last Edit: 06/06/2018 04:20 pm by ringsider »

Offline russianhalo117

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That is a big leap of faith for SSTL, the price must be amazing.

Just noticed that Firefly's VCLS contract  was "terminated for cause" (contract #NNK15LB19C).




Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


It was not transferred to the new company.

Offline vaporcobra

Stage 2 testing, posted today. Loving the penny-pinching rocket startup vibes...

Offline ThePhugoid

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Stage 2 testing, posted today. Loving the penny-pinching rocket startup vibes...

What are they testing here exactly, the telehandler forklift?

Offline vaporcobra

Stage 2 testing, posted today. Loving the penny-pinching rocket startup vibes...

What are they testing here exactly, the telehandler forklift?

They're carrying it to the test stand.

Offline ThePhugoid

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Stage 2 testing, posted today. Loving the penny-pinching rocket startup vibes...

What are they testing here exactly, the telehandler forklift?

They're carrying it to the test stand.

Ah so burst or cryo testing, or something of that sort?

Offline vaporcobra

Stage 2 testing, posted today. Loving the penny-pinching rocket startup vibes...

What are they testing here exactly, the telehandler forklift?

They're carrying it to the test stand.

Ah so burst or cryo testing, or something of that sort?

I suspect so, I believe they're focusing pretty heavily on perfecting their composite tank technology at the moment.

Edit: Attached a photo of what is presumably the stand being used for these tests.
« Last Edit: 06/19/2018 06:10 am by vaporcobra »

Offline fthomassy

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http://fireflyspace.com/assets/files/SpaceNews%20-%20Firefly%20Aerospace%20Article.pdf And attached.

September 2019 launch date.

Quote
The company’s Texas facilities have about 140 employees now, close to the size of the original Firefly when it ran into financial problems two years ago, and the company is actively hiring.

It is my understanding they do not use recruiters.
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline PhotoEngineer

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It is my understanding they do not use recruiters.

They use recruiters.

Offline josespeck

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Offline ChrisWilson68

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SSTL awards Launch Services Agreement to Firefly
Quote
Mon, 04 Jun 2018
CEDAR PARK, Texas, June 1, 2018

Firefly Aerospace, Inc. (Firefly), a developer of orbital launch vehicles for the small to medium satellite market, announced today the execution of a Launch Services Agreement (LSA) with Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) for use of the Firefly Alpha launch vehicle.

“Firefly is pleased to enter into an LSA with SSTL to provide up to six Alpha launches from 2020 through 2022,” said Firefly CEO Dr. Tom Markusic. “The Alpha launch vehicle allows for deployment of SSTL satellites as a primary payload to their preferred orbit, rather than flying as a secondary payload on a larger launch vehicle.”

Sarah Parker, SSTL Managing Director, said, “SSTL is delighted to be the first Firefly Aerospace customer to sign an LSA. Our new partnership with Firefly assures SSTL customers convenient, dependable access to space, with certainty of launch opportunities. Starting with CARBONITE-4 in early 2020, we look forward to launching many successful missions together.”

Dr. Max Polyakov, Firefly Co-founder, added that, “The Firefly Alpha program is on schedule for our first launch in the third quarter of 2019. Our mass production processes will enable eight Alpha flights in 2020 and eighteen flights in 2021. This launch cadence will allow Firefly to support missions from SSTL and the many other customers that have expressed interest in the Alpha launch vehicle. Firefly is excited to join with SSTL in opening space to a new generation of entrepreneurs.”

Space News article

That is a big leap of faith for SSTL, the price must be amazing.

No, there's no leap of faith at all here.  SSTL didn't commit to anything.

SSTL isn't an end customer.  They are a satellite manufacturer.  Almost certainly, this contract between SSTL and Firefly just sets the terms for SSTL to be able to offer build-and-lauch packages to their customers.

Notice the press release says "up to six Alpha launches".  6 is the max.  No minimum number is given.  If the minimum were anything other than zero, they would have mentioned a minimum.

This is a bit of minor good news for firefly, because it means SSTL is more likely to try to sell their own customers on a firefly launch.  But it's not at all the same as an actual launch contract from an actual end customer who's going to own a satellite and pay to put it in orbit.

Offline russianhalo117

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SSTL awards Launch Services Agreement to Firefly
Quote
Mon, 04 Jun 2018
CEDAR PARK, Texas, June 1, 2018

Firefly Aerospace, Inc. (Firefly), a developer of orbital launch vehicles for the small to medium satellite market, announced today the execution of a Launch Services Agreement (LSA) with Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) for use of the Firefly Alpha launch vehicle.

“Firefly is pleased to enter into an LSA with SSTL to provide up to six Alpha launches from 2020 through 2022,” said Firefly CEO Dr. Tom Markusic. “The Alpha launch vehicle allows for deployment of SSTL satellites as a primary payload to their preferred orbit, rather than flying as a secondary payload on a larger launch vehicle.”

Sarah Parker, SSTL Managing Director, said, “SSTL is delighted to be the first Firefly Aerospace customer to sign an LSA. Our new partnership with Firefly assures SSTL customers convenient, dependable access to space, with certainty of launch opportunities. Starting with CARBONITE-4 in early 2020, we look forward to launching many successful missions together.”

Dr. Max Polyakov, Firefly Co-founder, added that, “The Firefly Alpha program is on schedule for our first launch in the third quarter of 2019. Our mass production processes will enable eight Alpha flights in 2020 and eighteen flights in 2021. This launch cadence will allow Firefly to support missions from SSTL and the many other customers that have expressed interest in the Alpha launch vehicle. Firefly is excited to join with SSTL in opening space to a new generation of entrepreneurs.”

Space News article

That is a big leap of faith for SSTL, the price must be amazing.

No, there's no leap of faith at all here.  SSTL didn't commit to anything.

SSTL isn't an end customer.  They are a satellite manufacturer.  Almost certainly, this contract between SSTL and Firefly just sets the terms for SSTL to be able to offer build-and-lauch packages to their customers.

Notice the press release says "up to six Alpha launches".  6 is the max.  No minimum number is given.  If the minimum were anything other than zero, they would have mentioned a minimum.

This is a bit of minor good news for firefly, because it means SSTL is more likely to try to sell their own customers on a firefly launch.  But it's not at all the same as an actual launch contract from an actual end customer who's going to own a satellite and pay to put it in orbit.

SSTL does also fly satellites for itself in addition to its customers. The most recent example of SSTL flying payloads for itself is the recent PSLV-CA launch.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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SSTL does also fly satellites for itself in addition to its customers. The most recent example of SSTL flying payloads for itself is the recent PSLV-CA launch.

Yes, they do, but what they fly are micro satellites to demo their technologies.  I would think they'd be too small to be worth booking a dedicated Firefly launch.  And the press release even says, "Our new partnership with Firefly assures SSTL customers convenient, dependable access to space...".  So the partnership agreement with Firefly is about SSTL's customers, not SSTL as a customer.

The last SSTL demo satellite I could find numbers for was CARBONITE-2, which was 100kg.  It would be kind of a waste to spend a full Firefly launch on a 100kg satellite.

Offline russianhalo117

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NovaSAR-S Number 1 was 430kg and is a prototype Compact SAR Demo with the possibility of multiple operational flights. Then there is SSTL-S1 4 which massed in at 447kg. SSTL VAMP series is in 500-1000kg mass range and they are looking at developing 2 new SSTL series: one in the 1000-3000kg range and one series in the 4000-8000kg range because of the whole UK dependency post Brexit requirements.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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