Author Topic: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)  (Read 119228 times)

Offline a_langwich

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #120 on: 10/26/2013 06:12 am »
Lockheed Martin Announces Cubesat payload integrators for Athena.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/august/0814-ss-athena.html

 - Ed Kyle

From that
Quote
In addition, Athena RideShare missions planned for 2015 and 2016 from Kodiak Launch Complex can accommodate 24 P-PODs or a mix of 3U, 6U and 12U CubeSat containerized payloads, vastly expanding launch opportunities for these very small satellites to sun synchronous orbits.

So there are Athena launches planned in 2015 and 2016?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #121 on: 10/26/2013 08:16 pm »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #122 on: 10/26/2013 09:27 pm »
Everyone here are the updated 2013 PDFs for the Athena Modular Family:
Athena Rideshare (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/space/documents/athena/Athena%20RideShare.pdf)
Athena Fact Sheet (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/space/documents/athena/Athena%20Fact%20Sheet%20Review%20vers%204.pdf)
Athena User Guide (Coming Soon)
Athena Modular Family (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/space/documents/athena/Athena_Modular_Family_2013_WBG.pdf)
First official look at Athena III.  But also Athena IIcS with strap on motors.  Orion 50SXLG strap on motors no less.  Surprise!

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/26/2013 09:35 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #123 on: 10/26/2013 11:31 pm »
First official look at Athena III.  But also Athena IIcS with strap on motors.  Orion 50SXLG strap on motors no less.  Surprise!

 - Ed Kyle

Athena IIcS is just the reincarnation of the original Athena-3 with the Castor-IVA boosters replaced with Pegasus-heritage Orion-50SXLGs.

Offline a_langwich

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #124 on: 10/27/2013 01:34 am »

Okay, see if I'm understanding this correctly.  LM is planning to launch an Athena "Ride Share" each fall, starting in 2014, sort of like a scheduled train that leaves no matter how many people are on board?  Try to fill it with as many small payloads as possible.

Anybody willing to hazard a ball-park guess as to the costs of an Athena I, II, IIcS, or III flight?  What about a ballpark for Minotaur flights?  How many more Minotaur flights can Orbital do before the Peacekeeper motors available to them are exhausted?  ISTM that would help Athena's case.  Have Minotaurs flown out of Vandenberg?

Do Athenas jump off the pad like the Minotaurs?  The Minotaur gets out of town in a big hurry.

Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #125 on: 10/27/2013 02:13 am »
12 components arranged in 14 combinations - proof that rockets are Lego (if they are designed that way)  :D

A few thoughts/questions:

I doubt that most options will ever fly, which will be the most popular and why?

The "Ride Share" flights every autumn seem a good idea, there is no shortage of small/micro/nano sats looking for rides at present, a dedicated flight is likely to be better than hitching a ride. A flight a year means that they can keep the engineering team together performing actual flights.

The stages look like they will be pretty cheap, but integration costs are likely to be relatively high. Fixed costs look like they will be relatively low.

There is potentially lots of competition at the low end with the various air launched proposals.

At the high end Antares (and a fully reusable F9) would be potential domestic competitors. Internationally there are lots more.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #126 on: 10/27/2013 04:12 am »
Athena IIcS is just the reincarnation of the original Athena-3 with the Castor-IVA boosters replaced with Pegasus-heritage Orion-50SXLGs.
Yes, but with substantially more powerful boosters to create a substantial rocket using nothing but existing motors.  Athena 2cS with six boosters would lift 4.19 tonnes to a 500 km x 28.5 deg LEO, versus a maximum of 3.6 tonnes for the originally proposed Castor 4A version.  That's more than any version of Minotaur, more than Dnepr, more than the old Titan 23G.   It is a number that bumps up close to Delta 2 and Antares capability.  It is more than CZ-2D and CZ-4B/C, rockets that handle a majority of China's launches of late.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/27/2013 04:13 am by edkyle99 »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #127 on: 10/27/2013 02:02 pm »
Unless you do ISS, LEO means SSO. And 3 tonnes covers everything commercial, NASA and a good fraction of DoD. It's right sized as is. I simply don't see the III market. Should be awfully expensive for the limited extra performance.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #128 on: 10/27/2013 04:32 pm »
Unless you do ISS, LEO means SSO. And 3 tonnes covers everything commercial, NASA and a good fraction of DoD. It's right sized as is. I simply don't see the III market. Should be awfully expensive for the limited extra performance.
With the revelation about Athena 2cS, I agree about Athena 3.  Unless the Athena 3 so far revealed is only an initial stepping stone to something more capable.

I also found very interesting the little note about a new "Castor 120XL" option. 

 - Ed Kyle 

« Last Edit: 10/27/2013 05:00 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #129 on: 10/27/2013 05:53 pm »
Unless you do ISS, LEO means SSO. And 3 tonnes covers everything commercial, NASA and a good fraction of DoD. It's right sized as is. I simply don't see the III market. Should be awfully expensive for the limited extra performance.
With the revelation about Athena 2cS, I agree about Athena 3.  Unless the Athena 3 so far revealed is only an initial stepping stone to something more capable.

I also found very interesting the little note about a new "Castor 120XL" option. 

 - Ed Kyle
LM has said that Athena IIcS was designed with max number of Strap-On SRMs not exceeding 8 and before Athena III came along as well as to this day these Athena IIcS Strap-On SRMs are can be of stretched lengths with a length not exceeding that of Castor-120. In other words Orion 50SXLG SRMs were available at longer lengths. I have also seen a graphic of a proposed Athena IV and V that are one and two segments longer than the Three Segment Castor  900 used by Athena III. I will find and upload graphic later.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #130 on: 10/28/2013 03:03 pm »
Athena IIcS6 is interesting. In the middle Delta II range. I bet it'd be significantly cheaper than Athena III at low launch rates since the component masses would be much lighter.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2013 03:04 pm by Robotbeat »
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #131 on: 10/28/2013 03:49 pm »
Athena IIcS6 is interesting. In the middle Delta II range. I bet it'd be significantly cheaper than Athena III at low launch rates since the component masses would be much lighter.
And far cheaper to develop.  All of the Athena 2cS motors already exist while the Athena 3 first stage would have to be developed.  Presumably Athena 2cS would fly from existing pads, while Athena 3 would need new pads.  And so on.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #132 on: 10/28/2013 04:29 pm »
Athena IIcS6 is interesting. In the middle Delta II range. I bet it'd be significantly cheaper than Athena III at low launch rates since the component masses would be much lighter.
And far cheaper to develop.  All of the Athena 2cS motors already exist while the Athena 3 first stage would have to be developed.  Presumably Athena 2cS would fly from existing pads, while Athena 3 would need new pads.  And so on.

 - Ed Kyle
I think Athena III could fly from LC-39, possibly. Or, I'm pretty sure it's been considered.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #133 on: 10/28/2013 07:48 pm »
That "Castor 900" stage - would that be the same diameter as a shuttle SRB?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #134 on: 10/28/2013 08:41 pm »
That "Castor 900" stage - would that be the same diameter as a shuttle SRB?
Yes design requirements for Castor 900 are taken from RSRMV programme. The Castor 900 Designation is new and is designation for three segment version of RSRMV. RSRM Specific info is listed in the latest ATK SRM Catalog

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #135 on: 10/29/2013 11:16 pm »
That "Castor 900" stage - would that be the same diameter as a shuttle SRB?
Yes design requirements for Castor 900 are taken from RSRMV programme. The Castor 900 Designation is new and is designation for three segment version of RSRMV. RSRM Specific info is listed in the latest ATK SRM Catalog
I thought it was 2.5 segments for Athena 3.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #136 on: 10/29/2013 11:40 pm »
That "Castor 900" stage - would that be the same diameter as a shuttle SRB?
Yes design requirements for Castor 900 are taken from RSRMV programme. The Castor 900 Designation is new and is designation for three segment version of RSRMV. RSRM Specific info is listed in the latest ATK SRM Catalog
I thought it was 2.5 segments for Athena 3.

 - Ed Kyle
yes indeed that is what i meant I going by some ATK document at a glance.

Offline fatjohn1408

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #137 on: 01/29/2014 01:29 pm »
Will all vehicles have an option to fly with a star engine on top of the orbital adjust module?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #138 on: 01/29/2014 02:53 pm »
Will all vehicles have an option to fly with a star engine on top of the orbital adjust module?
The user's guide described use of a Star 37FM fifth stage on Athena 2c for GTO and escape missions, but did not mention it for Athena 1c.  The smaller rocket would likely only be used for LEO missions.  Star 37FM weighs more than the mass that Athena 1c can lift to LEO.   

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 01/29/2014 05:20 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline fatjohn1408

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #139 on: 01/30/2014 07:58 am »
Will all vehicles have an option to fly with a star engine on top of the orbital adjust module?
The user's guide described use of a Star 37FM fifth stage on Athena 2c for GTO and escape missions, but did not mention it for Athena 1c.  The smaller rocket would likely only be used for LEO missions.  Star 37FM weighs more than the mass that Athena 1c can lift to LEO.   

 - Ed Kyle

So all IIcS versions will have that option as well presumably. Athena III perhaps as well but also might have a more powerfull kick stage.

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