Hi. I'm new to this blog, hope the following idea is not old hat already. I've been thinking about Spacex, and the other ventures Elon is involved with. I have a scenario that links (almost) all his ventures to open up the solar system to exploration, manned and otherwise. Not saying if this is or is not possible any time soon, just hoping to get some feedback. Everyone I talk to about it thinks I'm crazy. Anyway, I see Elon now plans to have a moon base, in addition to Mars aspirations. His Boring Co is also working on creating much faster TBMs. If you put a nose cone on a TBM, it is kind of the shape of the upper stage of his BFR. Anyway, in my proposal, the Boring Co could create a fast TBM that works in a vacuum. Spacex would then get the TBM to the surface of the moon. TBMs need power. Elon's solar power systems to service. Set up the solar plant on the moon surface. Once the tunnel is created, or more likely as it's be being dug, line the tunnel with Hyperloop tech linear inductors. Linear inductors would send the future missions on their way, and could probably be used to lift the tunnel rock to the surface during construction. Rail gun tech might also work here. So you now have a tunnel, up to 2,000 miles long, lined with linear inductors, pointed away from the earth. If the moon's center is molten, build the tunnel off-center. Using higher G forces would allow for a shorter tunnel, but it would only work for unmanned missions. 2,000 miles, at 8G for 5 minutes, would add about 55,000 MPH for a manned mission. You would only need fuel for maneuvering and slowing down on destination, weight would not be an issue, so you would be able to add radiation shielding. Using something like rail gun G force, 50,000 G, would get you to almost 1% of light speed. I can't think of any other idea out there to get a probe to anything like interstellar speed. You would have to wait till the moon was pointing in a specific direction, but the windows would be monthly, not every 2 or 3 years. Most of the points of interest in our solar system are on a common plane. It would really cut down on the length of a Mars mission, and might open up the rest of the solar system for manned. Unmanned probe launches would be very much less expensive and much quicker, just need to get the packages to the moon. Also, is Elon going to consider sending Tesla cars to the next solar system to expand his market? That part has at least been tested beyond earth orbit. Obviously there are a lot of details left out here. I don't see anything that is impossible in the near future, but it would be expensive and difficult.
Set up the solar plant on the moon surface.
i guess that Elon Musk has great plans with the Moon i think that will SpaceX install an Moon base for production of Liquid Oxygen and it's by-productswith access to lunar liquid Oxygen in Low earth orbit would reduce the Tanker launches for Starliner only to liquid methane The by-products would be metals like iron, titan. Silicon and rare earth elements last one is much needed raw material for Electronic industry and rechargeable battery like for Tesla cars.This rare earth elements mining could be economical viable since the name hinge it extrem rare on earth,While the Apollo 12 astronauts walked in that stuff in 1969
Quote from: Michel Van on 01/07/2019 07:55 amThe by-products would be metals like iron, titan. Silicon and rare earth elements last one is much needed raw material for Electronic industry and rechargeable battery like for Tesla cars.This rare earth elements mining could be economical viable since the name hinge it extrem rare on earth,While the Apollo 12 astronauts walked in that stuff in 1969No. Rare Earth metals aren't really that rare on Earth. And they're not particularly abundant on the Moon. Certainly it would be far, far cheaper to mine them here on our home planet than to mine them on the Moon, for far into the future.And it's cheaper to send the LOX up from the Earth's surface to orbit than to generate it on the surface of the moon and then ship it up from there to where it's needed for a trip to Mars.Mining is hard. Really hard. It's very labor-intensive. It's very fluids-intensive. It's very energy-intensive. Lots of parts need lubrication and maintenance, and lots of things need cleaning and replacement. And all the technology for mining, that we've developed over thousands of years, is all based on working in our atmosphere.
The by-products would be metals like iron, titan. Silicon and rare earth elements last one is much needed raw material for Electronic industry and rechargeable battery like for Tesla cars.This rare earth elements mining could be economical viable since the name hinge it extrem rare on earth,While the Apollo 12 astronauts walked in that stuff in 1969
Quote from: Michel Van on 01/07/2019 07:55 ami guess that Elon Musk has great plans with the Moon i think that will SpaceX install an Moon base for production of Liquid Oxygen and it's by-productswith access to lunar liquid Oxygen in Low earth orbit would reduce the Tanker launches for Starliner only to liquid methane The by-products would be metals like iron, titan. Silicon and rare earth elements last one is much needed raw material for Electronic industry and rechargeable battery like for Tesla cars.This rare earth elements mining could be economical viable since the name hinge it extrem rare on earth,While the Apollo 12 astronauts walked in that stuff in 1969No. Rare Earth metals aren't really that rare on Earth. And they're not particularly abundant on the Moon. Certainly it would be far, far cheaper to mine them here on our home planet than to mine them on the Moon, for far into the future.And it's cheaper to send the LOX up from the Earth's surface to orbit than to generate it on the surface of the moon and then ship it up from there to where it's needed for a trip to Mars.Mining is hard. Really hard. It's very labor-intensive. It's very fluids-intensive. It's very energy-intensive. Lots of parts need lubrication and maintenance, and lots of things need cleaning and replacement. And all the technology for mining, that we've developed over thousands of years, is all based on working in our atmosphere.
Quote from: Michel Van on 01/07/2019 07:55 ami guess that Elon Musk has great plans with the Moon i think that will SpaceX install an Moon base for production of Liquid Oxygen and it's by-productswith access to lunar liquid Oxygen in Low earth orbit would reduce the Tanker launches for Starliner only to liquid methane The by-products would be metals like iron, titan. Silicon and rare earth elements last one is much needed raw material for Electronic industry and rechargeable battery like for Tesla cars.This rare earth elements mining could be economical viable since the name hinge it extrem rare on earth,While the Apollo 12 astronauts walked in that stuff in 1969Not going to happen for many reasons but one major reason is that the Starship under development requires too many tanker launches to get to the moon and then return payload X (in this case liquid oxygen) to LEO. Cheaper and less flights to launch LOX from the Earth.Yet another expensive & Mars diversionary in space custom lunar transport architecture could be less expensive once built, but SpaceX has a focus and it's on Mars. The lunar surface base and mining would be another diversion of resources and expensive.People forget that the biggest risk getting to Mars for SpaceX is not engineering but running short of money. Musk is nowhere near Bezos cash rich. Unclear if SpaceX will succeed because of this. Opening 2 more money pits, a lunar transport architecture and a lunar mining base would exacerbate the situation. Even if the US govt were to subsidize parts of this it is also a time diversion delaying Mars. Elon is getting older. He can see the window of opportunity for Mars is finite.
Snip...Don't some of the more optimistic scenarios for Starlink, and what SpaceX have said re: lunar contracts, seem to leave a possibility for fairly substantial SpaceX-enabled activity? On the Moon or near it.
Quote from: Cinder on 01/07/2019 04:13 pmSnip...Don't some of the more optimistic scenarios for Starlink, and what SpaceX have said re: lunar contracts, seem to leave a possibility for fairly substantial SpaceX-enabled activity? On the Moon or near it.They might do. I would imagine that a lucrative NASA contract for some Moon based project might well be of interest to SpaceX both as a source of income and as a way of piggy backing some other projects such as testing out Starship systems on the way. Mind you the price would have to be right. SpaceX is not interested in the Moon it would just be a means to an end for them, unlike Mars which is an end in its own right.
1/100 c is ~3000 km/s, and requires 4.5e9 MJ (or ~1 Megaton of TNT) for a 1000 kg probe. in fact a nuclear bomb might be the best way to get the required potential energy to the track on the moon. much more mass efficient than building power plants and running cables.the bomb energy isn't very focused, though, unless you use the special bombs designed for project Orion. In fact, do away with the track as well and just build project Orion.
Quote from: Michel Van on 01/07/2019 07:55 ami guess that Elon Musk has great plans with the Moon i think that will SpaceX install an Moon base for production of Liquid Oxygen and it's by-products with access to lunar liquid Oxygen in Low earth orbit would reduce the Tanker launches for Starliner only to liquid methane ...Not going to happen for many reasons but one major reason is that the Starship under development requires too many tanker launches to get to the moon and then return payload X (in this case liquid oxygen) to LEO. Cheaper and less flights to launch LOX from the Earth.Yet another expensive & Mars diversionary in space custom lunar transport architecture could be less expensive once built, but SpaceX has a focus and it's on Mars. The lunar surface base and mining would be another diversion of resources and expensive.
i guess that Elon Musk has great plans with the Moon i think that will SpaceX install an Moon base for production of Liquid Oxygen and it's by-products with access to lunar liquid Oxygen in Low earth orbit would reduce the Tanker launches for Starliner only to liquid methane ...
Not saying if this is or is not possible any time soon, just hoping to get some feedback. Everyone I talk to about it thinks I'm crazy.