Author Topic: Fregat Master Thread  (Read 114803 times)

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12095
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18198
  • Likes Given: 12158
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #40 on: 12/11/2012 10:45 am »
And I don't understand what "plane-parallel" means...  ???
It means "located/belonging to/confined in a flat plane (of 2 dimensions)", as opposed to a gimball that makes the engine trace a sphere, typically. So, instead of rotation we have translation.

Thanks zaitcev for that explanation !
But I don't understand how the engine can translate with a hinge ??
Maybe my English is not correct. Do we agree that a "hinge" is this thing ?
Well, I do. THAT is a hinge.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #41 on: 12/11/2012 04:16 pm »
It sounds like the "hinge" is simply a gimbal that can only move in one dimension. The 6 main engines on Proton are arranged like that, they can only gimbal in one direction, out or in.

I suspect that the Saturn IB first stage engines similarly could only gimbal in one direction, at least the 4 outer engines.

How Fregat can get by with one engine that can only gimbal in one direction is a mystery to me. I assumed it couldn't gimbal at all, and all attitude control/roll control was handled by the ACS.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #42 on: 12/12/2012 01:04 pm »
It sounds like the "hinge" is simply a gimbal that can only move in one dimension. The 6 main engines on Proton are arranged like that, they can only gimbal in one direction, out or in.

But "gimbaling in one dimension" and "translating" is not the same thing !  :)
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #43 on: 12/12/2012 02:52 pm »
It sounds like the "hinge" is simply a gimbal that can only move in one dimension. The 6 main engines on Proton are arranged like that, they can only gimbal in one direction, out or in.

But "gimbaling in one dimension" and "translating" is not the same thing !  :)

A hinge allows for gimbaling in one direction. A rocket engine that can gimbal in one direction allows for limited translation, without simultaneous support from the ACS.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #44 on: 12/12/2012 03:15 pm »
A rocket engine that can gimbal in one direction allows for limited translation, without simultaneous support from the ACS.

Could you explain me this fact ?
If I understand correctly : a gimbal with a very small angle can be viewed as a little translation. Correct ?
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline patchfree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
  • webmaster and russian space fan
  • Poitiers, France
    • kosmosnews.fr, l'actualité spatiale russe en français
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #45 on: 12/12/2012 09:15 pm »
Are you refering to a translation in a parallel plan of an engine (or a group of)? In this case the result is equivalent to gimbaling the engine vector, as the position of the engine move from the spacecraft center of gravity...
http://kosmosnews.fr l'actualité spatiale russe en français

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 955
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #46 on: 02/14/2013 01:23 pm »
Someone knows when this system made its maiden flight on Fregat?

http://npcap.ru/napravleniya-deyatelnosti/novyie-i-perspektivnyie-razrabotki/integrirovannaya-inerczialno-astro-sputnikovaya-sistema-navigaczii.html

ASN has worked on Fregat in telemetry mode (i.e. its data were not used by BTsVM) since 2003. ASN first flight in normal mode (i.e. its data were used by BTsVM) was on 17 September 2009. Since that time there were 20 Fregat flights with ASN worked in normal mode. Also ASN has worked in telemetry mode on last DM-SLB flight. NPTs AP wants to use ASN in normal mode on next DM-SLB flight, but it depends on customer's permission. ASN will be installed on DM-03 too. In next DM-03 flight it will work in telemetry mode.
« Last Edit: 02/14/2013 01:24 pm by anik »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #47 on: 02/15/2013 04:42 pm »
Someone knows when this system made its maiden flight on Fregat?

http://npcap.ru/napravleniya-deyatelnosti/novyie-i-perspektivnyie-razrabotki/integrirovannaya-inerczialno-astro-sputnikovaya-sistema-navigaczii.html

ASN has worked on Fregat in telemetry mode (i.e. its data were not used by BTsVM) since 2003. ASN first flight in normal mode (i.e. its data were used by BTsVM) was on 17 September 2009. Since that time there were 20 Fregat flights with ASN worked in normal mode. Also ASN has worked in telemetry mode on last DM-SLB flight. NPTs AP wants to use ASN in normal mode on next DM-SLB flight, but it depends on customer's permission. ASN will be installed on DM-03 too. In next DM-03 flight it will work in telemetry mode.

Thank you anik for these great informations !
If I understand correctly, "telemetry mode" is a mode were ASN is flown only for tests ?
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 955
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #48 on: 02/15/2013 05:35 pm »
Yes.

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #49 on: 02/15/2013 06:09 pm »
OK.

But this platform has three integrated devices : ASN, inertial unit and stellar unit.
You mean that ASN-part was flown for test, but the other two units were operationnel (I mean, used by BTsVM) ?
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 955
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #50 on: 02/15/2013 06:27 pm »
There is only ASN on this platform.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #51 on: 02/28/2013 10:00 pm »
And I don't understand what "plane-parallel" means...  ???
It means "located/belonging to/confined in a flat plane (of 2 dimensions)", as opposed to a gimball that makes the engine trace a sphere, typically. So, instead of rotation we have translation.

I think this means that the gimbal moves like a rook in chess, not a queen.

Offline YzeStudent

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 27
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #52 on: 01/09/2014 04:52 pm »
VS01 Fregat-MT n1030
VS02 Fregat n1021
VS03 Fregat-MT n1031
VS04 Fregat n1020
VS05 Fregat-MT n1041
VS06 Fregat-MT n1040
VS07 Fregat-M n1038

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
  • Liked: 377
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #53 on: 11/13/2014 07:44 pm »
Quote
«Проведение комплекса работ по повышению надежности составных частей РБ «Фрегат», связанных с заменой комплектующих изделий иностранного производства на отечественные аналоги»
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0173100007014000210

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #54 on: 11/14/2014 05:12 am »
Quote
«Проведение комплекса работ по повышению надежности составных частей РБ «Фрегат», связанных с заменой комплектующих изделий иностранного производства на отечественные аналоги»

http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0173100007014000210


"Carrying out a range of works to improve the reliability of the components of the RB" Fregat "associated with the replacement of components of foreign production on domestic counterparts"

Offline savuporo

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5152
  • Liked: 1002
  • Likes Given: 342
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #55 on: 12/10/2014 06:02 pm »
Last successful planetary missions launched by Fregat were Venus and Mars express , correct ? Phobos-Grunt of course wasn't too successful.
For both Venus and Mars express Fregat provided a TMI/TVI burn and then separated the spacecraft - but has a  Fregat in modern history actually ever successfully operated further away from earth ?
For the cancelled ESA/German moon lander they planned to have Fregat to take the lander all the way to lunar orbit including the LOI burn, and then release the lander. I'm wondering how feasible that would have been.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Online jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3622
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 1290
  • Likes Given: 775
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #56 on: 09/03/2015 05:09 am »
VS01 Fregat-MT n1030
VS02 Fregat n1021
VS03 Fregat-MT n1031
VS04 Fregat n1020
VS05 Fregat-MT n1041
VS06 Fregat-MT n1040
VS07 Fregat-M n1038

I believe
VS08  1032MT
VS09  1039MT
VS10   133-01
VS11   133-02

If I had to bet, I'd guess VS12 is Fregat 133-03 - can anyone confirm?
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline anik

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Liked: 955
  • Likes Given: 368
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #57 on: 09/03/2015 05:17 am »
Yes.

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
  • Liked: 377
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #58 on: 10/17/2015 07:46 am »
Serial numbers of upcoming Fregats:-
Quote
РБ «Фрегат» № 122-01 для запуска КА «Луна-Глоб»
РБ «Фрегат» № 122-02 для запуска КА «Резонанс»
РБ «Фрегат» № 122-04 для запуска КА «Метеор-М» № 2-1
РБ «Фрегат-СБ» № 2006 для запуска КА «Спектр-РГ»
http://www.zakupki.gov.ru/epz/order/notice/ok44/view/common-info.html?regNumber=0173100007015000109

From what I understand, I think the Rezonans rocket has been donated for the launch of Kanopus-V-IK.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37032.msg1359462#msg1359462

Offline Stan Black

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
  • Liked: 377
  • Likes Given: 228
Re: Fregat Master Thread
« Reply #59 on: 08/03/2016 05:39 pm »
« Last Edit: 08/03/2016 05:44 pm by Stan Black »

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0