Author Topic: Where will BFR be built?  (Read 210700 times)

Offline paulthew

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #340 on: 01/25/2018 11:28 pm »
As stated in this article, https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/01/kennedy-cape-brownsville-launch-pads-schedules/ , Spacex is looking at building a BFR manufacturing facility in Florida near Blue Origin's facility.  However, since each module of the BFR should be able to fly great distances, shouldn't they be able to simply determine the best industrial location, build them there, and autonomously fly them to KSC or Brownsville?  Why should anything besides air traffic be a factor with the capabilities of the BFR modules?

Offline envy887

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #341 on: 01/26/2018 02:20 am »
As stated in this article, https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/01/kennedy-cape-brownsville-launch-pads-schedules/ , Spacex is looking at building a BFR manufacturing facility in Florida near Blue Origin's facility.  However, since each module of the BFR should be able to fly great distances, shouldn't they be able to simply determine the best industrial location, build them there, and autonomously fly them to KSC or Brownsville?  Why should anything besides air traffic be a factor with the capabilities of the BFR modules?

You can't just launch a rocket from anywhere you want, especially one the size of BFR.

Offline IanThePineapple

Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #342 on: 01/26/2018 02:52 am »
As stated in this article, https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/01/kennedy-cape-brownsville-launch-pads-schedules/ , Spacex is looking at building a BFR manufacturing facility in Florida near Blue Origin's facility.  However, since each module of the BFR should be able to fly great distances, shouldn't they be able to simply determine the best industrial location, build them there, and autonomously fly them to KSC or Brownsville?  Why should anything besides air traffic be a factor with the capabilities of the BFR modules?

You can't just launch a rocket from anywhere you want, especially one the size of BFR.

Yeah, ESPECIALLY over land.

The FAA and NASA would kill your company and/or reputation faster than you can say "liftoff".

Offline Dave G

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #343 on: 01/26/2018 10:52 am »

Given how EM thinks about vertical integration I can easily imagine the BFR facility being in Florida.


Long term, yes.  Near term, Gwynne said BFR will be built in Los Angeles.

Quote from: Fireside Chat with Gwynne Shotwell, Oct 11, 2017
Q: Where will the BFR be built?

A: We're looking at building a facility by the water in LA. We thought we'd build it in our factory in Hawthorne, but we priced transport to the harbor, and it came out to $2.5m per trip. It would require taking down stoplights, and just wouldn't be worth it. So we will build a new facility by the water. We will eventually also have a number of production sites by out launch sites.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #344 on: 01/28/2018 08:17 pm »
As stated in this article, https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/01/kennedy-cape-brownsville-launch-pads-schedules/ , Spacex is looking at building a BFR manufacturing facility in Florida near Blue Origin's facility.

The land described might be part of the Space Florida Exploration Park Second Phase, or might be part of the future expansion:

I took the site plan from http://www.explorationpark.com/available.htm and overlaid it on a Google Earth view of the area, really will depend on SpaceX's land needs:

« Last Edit: 01/28/2018 08:17 pm by Ronsmytheiii »

Offline Nydoc

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #345 on: 01/31/2018 03:38 pm »
Terminal Is. tent viewed from above.

Offline Navier–Stokes

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #346 on: 02/01/2018 11:49 pm »
SpaceX Gears Up to Finally, Actually Launch the Falcon Heavy
Quote
WIRED has learned that SpaceX is actively considering expanding its San Pedro, California facility to begin manufacturing its interplanetary spacecraft. This would allow SpaceX to easily shift personnel from headquarters in Hawthorne.

Offline ShawnGSE

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #347 on: 02/02/2018 12:46 am »
That reflects the rumors I've heard for a long time.  The word "facility" makes me chuckle, so far that facility is a single-wide trailer, or at least it was a year ago when I got stuck there.  Most of the port in that area is parking lot. 

Online vaporcobra

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #348 on: 02/02/2018 02:21 am »
That reflects the rumors I've heard for a long time.  The word "facility" makes me chuckle, so far that facility is a single-wide trailer, or at least it was a year ago when I got stuck there.  Most of the port in that area is parking lot.

Pshhhh, don't sell it short! It also has a moderately sized tent in store :)

Offline jpo234

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #349 on: 02/02/2018 09:06 am »
That reflects the rumors I've heard for a long time.  The word "facility" makes me chuckle, so far that facility is a single-wide trailer, or at least it was a year ago when I got stuck there.  Most of the port in that area is parking lot.

Pshhhh, don't sell it short! It also has a moderately sized tent in store :)

That one?

You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #350 on: 02/02/2018 09:44 am »
My very rough measuring on Gmaps compared to the other buildings on site would put it at around 50-60m long and 30m wide.  Height seems half the width? 15m ish?

Seems a bit of a squeeze to assemble a 48m ship in there?

(My measurements could be garbage though) 
« Last Edit: 02/02/2018 09:45 am by Cheapchips »

Offline geza

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #351 on: 02/02/2018 05:21 pm »
How much, and what kind of equipments are needed to build the craft? Something large, complex and expensive? Or, something simple, which can be stored in a tent and easy to relocat later?

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #352 on: 02/02/2018 07:58 pm »
I think we're talking about two different locations in San Pedro.  ShawnGSE and Cheapchips appear to be referencing the area near Berths 51-53 on Miner Street.  Vaporcobra and jpo234 appear to be referencing the old Naval and Marine Reserve Center on Reeves Avenue.  The area near Berths 51-53 is very tight for any sort of manufacturing facility, but the old Naval and Marine Reserve Center has plenty of room for a spaceship factory.  Don't know how suitable it would be on other factors besides space.

In either location, you would need to build a new building.  So the contemplated timeline seems off.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2018 08:05 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #353 on: 02/02/2018 08:12 pm »

I'm was referencing Mydoc's overhead shot of the Reese Avenue tent, if that wasn't clear.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #354 on: 02/02/2018 08:41 pm »

I'm was referencing Mydoc's overhead shot of the Reese Avenue tent, if that wasn't clear.

Ah, I see.  The Reeves Avenue tent wouldn't seem to be a suitable place to build a spaceship.  For instance, you would need ovens to cure the carbon fiber vessels.

I vaguely recall that the buildings on site already have environmental approval for demolition.  So I am assuming that all the buildings on the Reeves Avenue site would be razed and SpaceX would build a reasonably-sized factory.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #355 on: 02/02/2018 09:26 pm »

I'm was referencing Mydoc's overhead shot of the Reese Avenue tent, if that wasn't clear.

Ah, I see.  The Reeves Avenue tent wouldn't seem to be a suitable place to build a spaceship.  For instance, you would need ovens to cure the carbon fiber vessels.

I vaguely recall that the buildings on site already have environmental approval for demolition.  So I am assuming that all the buildings on the Reeves Avenue site would be razed and SpaceX would build a reasonably-sized factory.

I argue that for Gwynne Shotwell to convince Elon Musk that $2.5 million transport cost are too expensive for transport she needs to provide an alternative that does not greatly affect the timeframe. Otherwise they would build at least the first 6-8 BFS and BFR at their Hawthorne facility as initially planned. The where and how is another matter.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #356 on: 02/02/2018 09:54 pm »

I'm was referencing Mydoc's overhead shot of the Reese Avenue tent, if that wasn't clear.

Ah, I see.  The Reeves Avenue tent wouldn't seem to be a suitable place to build a spaceship.  For instance, you would need ovens to cure the carbon fiber vessels.
>

When NASA and Boeing (with Janicki) built and tested large cryotanks a few years ago they used an out-of-autoclave composite.  SpaceX used Janiki to build their 12m "ITS" tank.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/case-study-nasaboeing-composite-launch-vehicle-fuel-tank-scores-firsts

Composites World....
« Last Edit: 02/02/2018 10:13 pm by docmordrid »
DM

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #357 on: 02/02/2018 10:09 pm »
When NASA and Boeing (with Janicki) built and tested large cryotanks a few years ago they used an out-of-autoclave composite.  SpaceX used Janiki to build their 12m "ITS" tank.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/case-study-nasaboeing-composite-launch-vehicle-fuel-tank-scores-firsts

As far as I know, "out of autoclave" means that it is cured in a 1 atmosphere oven.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #358 on: 02/02/2018 10:21 pm »
I argue that for Gwynne Shotwell to convince Elon Musk that $2.5 million transport cost are too expensive for transport she needs to provide an alternative that does not greatly affect the timeframe. Otherwise they would build at least the first 6-8 BFS and BFR at their Hawthorne facility as initially planned. The where and how is another matter.

That argument is compelling to me, but the where and how is what this thread is all about.  :)

Clearly, we don't have a key piece of information.  Who knows, maybe that SSA Marine warehouse right next to Berths 51-53 is being unused and is big enough to do it.   The roof doesn't look quite tall enough (tough to tell for sure) and it seems like a terrible waste and expense to do it right next to the water, but again, who knows.

http://www.ssamarine.com/locations/outer-harbor-5455/
« Last Edit: 02/02/2018 10:27 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline unkulunkulu

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #359 on: 02/02/2018 10:26 pm »
I read through this thread and it seemed like the few times it was mentioned it was either ignored or dismissed, but it seems trivially easy to me for SpaceX to build a tunnel big enough and straight enough to fit the bfr/bfs from Hawthorne due west to the ocean south of lax or down to the port of la.   I mean they are already tunneling as a hobby for many miles around there.   Tunnels and tunneling machines the diameter of the bfr are nothing unusual at all.     Compared to rebuilding infrastructure and relocating people elsewhere it seems by far the quickest, easiest and cheapest solution to me.   

I can't believe that idea wouldn't appeal to Elon too.

 

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