Author Topic: Where will BFR be built?  (Read 208308 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #220 on: 10/14/2017 02:45 pm »
What's Google using the Spruce Goose facility for? Maybe they'd be willing to sell it to SpaceX?

see here:  http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-spruce-goose-hangar-sold-20161223-story.html
Well? What are they using it for?
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Offline philw1776

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #221 on: 10/14/2017 02:46 pm »
What's Google using the Spruce Goose facility for? Maybe they'd be willing to sell it to SpaceX?

see here:  http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-spruce-goose-hangar-sold-20161223-story.html
Well? What are they using it for?

Article describes the uses.  Google campus with high rises inside.
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Offline su27k

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #222 on: 10/14/2017 02:48 pm »
So building a new waterside factory nearby would:

- Save $2.5M in transport costs for each BFR and ITS built in Hawthorne
- Cost SpaceX more money to build a BFR and ITS production line since it would not use existing facilities
- Give SpaceX the ability to build Falcon 9's concurrently with BFR and ITS production

Anything else significant?

Would it also enable them to do structural testing on water, similar to the testing they did to the 12m tank? What about a structural test stand? Not having to ship the tank all the way to Texas or the east coast would save a lot of time during the early trial and error phase.

Offline Dave G

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #223 on: 10/15/2017 02:20 am »
What is the ballpark number for the cost of the new facility at the port?

Depends.

They could lease an existing building, or they could build a new one.

Gwynne said their long-term plans are to build BFR near the launch site.  This implies building BFR near an L.A. seaport is a short-term solution.  In this case, leasing space may make more sense.

Offline Nydoc

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #224 on: 10/15/2017 02:38 pm »
What is the ballpark number for the cost of the new facility at the port?

Depends.

They could lease an existing building, or they could build a new one.

Gwynne said their long-term plans are to build BFR near the launch site.  This implies building BFR near an L.A. seaport is a short-term solution.  In this case, leasing space may make more sense.
Presumably SpaceX would want to launch BFR from Vandenberg at some point in the future as they have calculated that BFR will be cheaper per flight than a F9 launch. They will still need Vandenberg for polar launches. Subsequently it would be in their interest keep a factory on the West Coast (besides the obvious benefit of having so much engineering talent already built up in LA).

Building BFRs in LA Harbor and shipping to Vandenberg is currently problematic. From what I can tell the nearest port to Vandenberg is Santa Barbara Harbor. Moving these 9 meter diameter spaceships and cores from Santa Barbara Harbor to VAFB will not happen.

One option for SpaceX is to eventually move their BFR factory near Vandenberg Village. Another option is to build a really large pier out near Surf Beach or Wall Beach so they can roll the stages right into VAFB. I think this would be a lot cheaper option than moving the BFR production line to Vandenberg Village. This would also provide the benefit of being able to supply both coasts from LA Harbor factory. Having the factory in LA Harbor has lots of other advantages.
« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 02:48 pm by Nydoc »

Online eriblo

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #225 on: 10/15/2017 03:52 pm »
What is the ballpark number for the cost of the new facility at the port?

Depends.

They could lease an existing building, or they could build a new one.

Gwynne said their long-term plans are to build BFR near the launch site.  This implies building BFR near an L.A. seaport is a short-term solution.  In this case, leasing space may make more sense.
Presumably SpaceX would want to launch BFR from Vandenberg at some point in the future as they have calculated that BFR will be cheaper per flight than a F9 launch. They will still need Vandenberg for polar launches. Subsequently it would be in their interest keep a factory on the West Coast (besides the obvious benefit of having so much engineering talent already built up in LA).

Building BFRs in LA Harbor and shipping to Vandenberg is currently problematic. From what I can tell the nearest port to Vandenberg is Santa Barbara Harbor. Moving these 9 meter diameter spaceships and cores from Santa Barbara Harbor to VAFB will not happen.

One option for SpaceX is to eventually move their BFR factory near Vandenberg Village. Another option is to build a really large pier out near Surf Beach or Wall Beach so they can roll the stages right into VAFB. I think this would be a lot cheaper option than moving the BFR production line to Vandenberg Village. This would also provide the benefit of being able to supply both coasts from LA Harbor factory. Having the factory in LA Harbor has lots of other advantages.
Shipping directly to Vandenberg is probably doable with relatively minor modifications, the launch pad is a much larger item.
http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/736948/delta-mariner-docks-at-vandenberg/

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #226 on: 10/15/2017 04:53 pm »
Shipping directly to Vandenberg is probably doable with relatively minor modifications, the launch pad is a much larger item.

To replace all Falcon launches and to serve the Airforce EELV 2 contract they need a pad at Vandenberg.

Online freddo411

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #227 on: 10/15/2017 07:10 pm »
What is the ballpark number for the cost of the new facility at the port?

Depends.

They could lease an existing building, or they could build a new one.

Gwynne said their long-term plans are to build BFR near the launch site.  This implies building BFR near an L.A. seaport is a short-term solution.  In this case, leasing space may make more sense.
Presumably SpaceX would want to launch BFR from Vandenberg at some point in the future as they have calculated that BFR will be cheaper per flight than a F9 launch. They will still need Vandenberg for polar launches. Subsequently it would be in their interest keep a factory on the West Coast (besides the obvious benefit of having so much engineering talent already built up in LA).

Building BFRs in LA Harbor and shipping to Vandenberg is currently problematic. From what I can tell the nearest port to Vandenberg is Santa Barbara Harbor. Moving these 9 meter diameter spaceships and cores from Santa Barbara Harbor to VAFB will not happen.

One option for SpaceX is to eventually move their BFR factory near Vandenberg Village. Another option is to build a really large pier out near Surf Beach or Wall Beach so they can roll the stages right into VAFB. I think this would be a lot cheaper option than moving the BFR production line to Vandenberg Village. This would also provide the benefit of being able to supply both coasts from LA Harbor factory. Having the factory in LA Harbor has lots of other advantages.
Shipping directly to Vandenberg is probably doable with relatively minor modifications, the launch pad is a much larger item.
http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/736948/delta-mariner-docks-at-vandenberg/

That boat ramp is extremely difficult to see on Google maps.   Here it is:  https://goo.gl/maps/DnAporUnYF52   

Very primitive landing area.   At least there's nothing in the way

Offline mme

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #228 on: 10/15/2017 07:21 pm »
From someone that lives and works in the area, if Elon thinks it's hard to drive to Hawthorn from his home in Brentwood, he's going to hate it, even more, driving further south to the LA Harbor area (add 30 more minutes).  The additional drive to Seal Beach (to the area near where the old Rockwell Saturn second stage plant) would add an additional 30 min.

Seal Beach


My bet is that Gwynne Shotwell will be knocking on the door of whoever owns or leases the area where the Sea Launch plant is: 
HERE:

Musk can afford a helicopter for that trip. Perhaps even for employees who need to shuttle back and forth from their sites.
Maybe a joint venture for the Boring Company and another of his companies that shall remain nameless?

OK, probably not as renting a helicopter and pilot full-time has got to be a lot cheaper.
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Offline Semmel

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #229 on: 10/15/2017 08:16 pm »
If they have to build a new launch pad anyway, why would they go to Vandenberg? Why not build a new launch facility like Boca Chica on the West Coast? I wouldn't be surprised if that happens to avoid launch conflicts or conflicts in general with the military operations at Vandenberg.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #230 on: 10/15/2017 08:46 pm »
If they have to build a new launch pad anyway, why would they go to Vandenberg? Why not build a new launch facility like Boca Chica on the West Coast? I wouldn't be surprised if that happens to avoid launch conflicts or conflicts in general with the military operations at Vandenberg.

I am sure the Airforce EELV 2 contract specifies Vandenberg.

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #231 on: 10/15/2017 08:51 pm »
Probably offshore platform for the west coast if Vandenberg can't support it.
Anybody know of existing platforms on the west coast?

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Online catdlr

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« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 09:17 pm by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #233 on: 10/17/2017 07:14 am »
What is the ballpark number for the cost of the new facility at the port?

Depends.

They could lease an existing building, or they could build a new one.

Gwynne said their long-term plans are to build BFR near the launch site.  This implies building BFR near an L.A. seaport is a short-term solution.  In this case, leasing space may make more sense.
Radical idea: Build a BFR assembly and service "facility" on a barge. There might be just enough room in LA Port shown (That East Channel looks 100m wide and 700m long - there's more room there than there is on land). Then at some point, the barge can be moved to Brownsville through the Panama canal.

Offline speedevil

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #234 on: 10/17/2017 01:39 pm »
Radical idea: Build a BFR assembly and service "facility" on a barge. There might be just enough room in LA Port shown (That East Channel looks 100m wide and 700m long - there's more room there than there is on land). Then at some point, the barge can be moved to Brownsville through the Panama canal.
Of all the locations for a factory that won't happen, this one won't happen the most.

The new panama canal limits are ~49m*366m. BFR is ~9m*58m. You really don't want to be working in a facility where you can't turn the rocket round.

49m wide is only really wide enough to fit three rockets in longways while working on them.

Offline jpo234

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #235 on: 10/17/2017 01:51 pm »
Radical idea: Build a BFR assembly and service "facility" on a barge. There might be just enough room in LA Port shown (That East Channel looks 100m wide and 700m long - there's more room there than there is on land). Then at some point, the barge can be moved to Brownsville through the Panama canal.
Of all the locations for a factory that won't happen, this one won't happen the most.

The new panama canal limits are ~49m*366m. BFR is ~9m*58m. You really don't want to be working in a facility where you can't turn the rocket round.

49m wide is only really wide enough to fit three rockets in longways while working on them.

Well, you can always offload from the assembly barge to a real freighter. But I agree, won't happen.
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Offline alexterrell

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #236 on: 10/20/2017 09:29 am »
Radical idea: Build a BFR assembly and service "facility" on a barge. There might be just enough room in LA Port shown (That East Channel looks 100m wide and 700m long - there's more room there than there is on land). Then at some point, the barge can be moved to Brownsville through the Panama canal.
Of all the locations for a factory that won't happen, this one won't happen the most.

The new panama canal limits are ~49m*366m. BFR is ~9m*58m. You really don't want to be working in a facility where you can't turn the rocket round.

49m wide is only really wide enough to fit three rockets in longways while working on them.

Ships are built in dry docks and never turned around. Aircraft are built in factories and can only be turned through 1 axis. A rocket would also be turnable through 1 axis.

A floating BFR assembly point could be about 200m x 30m. Assembling one BFR at a time (with most of the work at Hawthorne or other subcontractors)

That size of factory won't fit on the plot of land indicated up post, but could easily fit in the harbour channel.

Offline Dave G

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #237 on: 10/20/2017 09:50 am »
That size of factory won't fit on the plot of land indicated up post...

Which plot of land do you mean?  At least 3 have been mentioned up-thread.

Online catdlr

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #238 on: 10/20/2017 10:29 pm »
That size of factory won't fit on the plot of land indicated up post...

Which plot of land do you mean?  At least 3 have been mentioned up-thread.

Dave didn't I read above that the area SpaceX is interested is in the area highlighted in Red?

« Last Edit: 10/21/2017 10:41 pm by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa

Offline alexterrell

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Re: Where will BFR be built?
« Reply #239 on: 10/21/2017 06:58 pm »
I'd only saw the area marked in Yellow, which is too narrow to turn around a BFR - though I still don't see why you would want to turn it around.

 

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