ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread

[RoboGoofers]

It turned out that the ITS LOX tank has been built in this large building - former Pacific Marine Center.

Where's all the tooling? i'm skeptical that it was built at a marina. It'd be hard to hide when moving it, but nobody was expecting ITS parts to be built in Anacortes, WA, so it might have been observed as nothing more than a regular oversized load.


It also seems odd that they'd take it up to Bellingham bay to do the test instead of just doing it in Samish bay.

[JamesH65]

It turned out that the ITS LOX tank has been built in this large building - former Pacific Marine Center.

Where's all the tooling? i'm skeptical that it was built at a marina. It'd be hard to hide when moving it, but nobody was expecting ITS parts to be built in Anacortes, WA, so it might have been observed as nothing more than a regular oversized load.


It also seems odd that they'd take it up to Bellingham bay to do the test instead of just doing it in Samish bay.

Imagine trying to move this on normal roads....or even abnormal ones.

[eriblo]

It turned out that the ITS LOX tank has been built in this large building - former Pacific Marine Center.

Where's all the tooling? i'm skeptical that it was built at a marina. It'd be hard to hide when moving it, but nobody was expecting ITS parts to be built in Anacortes, WA, so it might have been observed as nothing more than a regular oversized load.


It also seems odd that they'd take it up to Bellingham bay to do the test instead of just doing it in Samish bay.

Imagine trying to move this on normal roads....or even abnormal ones.

My guess is that a company that specializes in composites and highlights their ability to make prototypes on site has a set up that can fit in the 3/4 of the building which we haven't seen in pictures (especially if cleaned up for those pictures). It's also unfair to say that it was built at a marina. It was built in a former boat repair and servicing building, an operation likely involving cranes, big loads and some composites, that was allegedly later used by Boeing to test out their 777 tooling. Located at a marina

[matthewkantar]

I too am skeptical they built the tank in that facility, but how they got it there if it was built at some other site is not that mysterious. It could have come in unnoticed by barge. It would take a real space nut to see that tank prior to the ITS announcement and guess its use. I suppose it could have been flown in by helicopter as well.

I am really curious about the tooling. I imagined a giant turning last with robots laying down mono-directional fiber. The tank looks like is was made in two pieces on a hemispherical mold and then joined together at the equator. The inside looks like a layup of individual squares. Is it possible that no winding was done? Maybe they built the two halfs, put them together and wound fiber over the assembled structure?

Matthew

[docmordrid]

Standard domes with cylindrical extensions could make some parts usable in both spaceship and booster. The thrust strucure/"domes" would differ, as would the concave methane tank upper dome.

[Rei]

Official confirmation of a successful pressure test:

SpaceX ‏@SpaceX   

Successfully tested the prototype Mars tank last week. Hit both of our pressure targets – next up will be full cryo testing.

8:41 AM - 16 Nov 2016

Update: Video of tank transport released on Instagram.

Pressurized with what substance?  To what pressure targets, versus what goal?

I'm in the "apprehensively watching" category.  Going from "nobody's ever flown an orbital-intent composite rocket LOX tank at any scale" to "by far the largest rocket in the world relying on them" is a huge leap they're trying to take. Composites and cryogenics, especially LOX, is a seriously challenging task.  I just don't want to see the largest rocket in history turn into the largest rocket explosion in history.  So.... I'm really hoping they can get everything ironed out in the testing.

[livingjw]

I suspect that the initial cryogenic  tests will be done with liquid nitrogen, since it sounded like they didn't have an internal coating yet.

[Rei]

I suspect that the initial cryogenic  tests will be done with liquid nitrogen, since it sounded like they didn't have an internal coating yet.

A very different beast, if so.

But, at least it would show any cracking under loading at cryogenic temperatures.

[gongora]

Someone posted a link on Reddit to this article, which is a nice intro to Janicki Industries.  It's a few years old, so they could have added other buildings since the article was written.

High-Performance Composites: Janicki Industries: Breaking the mold

[docmordrid]

This sounds vaguely familiar...

“If we haven’t thrown anything away in awhile,” quips one manager, “Peter [CEO] will challenge that we’re not pushing boundaries enough.”

[JamesH65]

I too am skeptical they built the tank in that facility, but how they got it there if it was built at some other site is not that mysterious. It could have come in unnoticed by barge. It would take a real space nut to see that tank prior to the ITS announcement and guess its use. I suppose it could have been flown in by helicopter as well.

I am really curious about the tooling. I imagined a giant turning last with robots laying down mono-directional fiber. The tank looks like is was made in two pieces on a hemispherical mold and then joined together at the equator. The inside looks like a layup of individual squares. Is it possible that no winding was done? Maybe they built the two halfs, put them together and wound fiber over the assembled structure?

Matthew

Something that big would unlikely go unnoticed...whether barged or helicoptered. Certainly not road transported. Doesn't need a space nut - anyone seeing that would photograph it and ask what the hell it was somewhere that would have been spotted.

[JasonAW3]

I too am skeptical they built the tank in that facility, but how they got it there if it was built at some other site is not that mysterious. It could have come in unnoticed by barge. It would take a real space nut to see that tank prior to the ITS announcement and guess its use. I suppose it could have been flown in by helicopter as well.

I am really curious about the tooling. I imagined a giant turning last with robots laying down mono-directional fiber. The tank looks like is was made in two pieces on a hemispherical mold and then joined together at the equator. The inside looks like a layup of individual squares. Is it possible that no winding was done? Maybe they built the two halfs, put them together and wound fiber over the assembled structure?

Matthew

Something that big would unlikely go unnoticed...whether barged or helicoptered. Certainly not road transported. Doesn't need a space nut - anyone seeing that would photograph it and ask what the hell it was somewhere that would have been spotted.

I could have been brought in by helicopter, on an overcast night.  If this location is as isolated or has as much air traffic as I suspect, it is possible that it would have gone unnoticed.

[matthewkantar]

I often see gigantic oversized loads rolling down the thoroughfare near me. Most people don't give them a second look. I can identify maybe a third of them, but as curious as I am, I don't take pictures and post them all over in an attempt to identify a load. Seeing an obviously rocket shaped thing on the interstate with a SpaceX logo on it is one thing, seeing a giant disembodied tank is another. If I saw that from a distance, I might have thought:"Wow, did not know hey made water tower tanks in one piece." Also, one would have to get really close to notice it was carbon fiber.

Matthew

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Someone posted a link on Reddit to this article, which is a nice intro to Janicki Industries.  It's a few years old, so they could have added other buildings since the article was written.

High-Performance Composites: Janicki Industries: Breaking the mold

Looking through their news/blog list no mention of anything for SpaceX.

[DOCinCT]

Came across this article in CompositesWorld; dated from 2013.  Interesting discussion of large scale composite fabrication (in this case a 10meter diameter fairing for the SLS).  Steps involved are in the side bar. Having worked on the LOX tank prototype, I wonder is Janicki will be involved in fabricating the hull for ITS.
http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/tooling-up-for-larger-launch-vehicles 

[jpo234]

The ITS tank is on the move again in Anacortes:
https://imgur.com/a/nDyLI

[docmordrid]

The ITS tank is on the move again in Anacortes:
https://imgur.com/a/nDyLI

Boosted the gain a tad. Clearly it snowed and they cleared the lot, an authenticity concern on rediit was a recent snowstorm but no piles seen. Round 2 tests of some kind, and in cold temps. Hmmmmm....

[AncientU]

The ITS tank is on the move again in Anacortes:
https://imgur.com/a/nDyLI

Boosted the gain a tad. Clearly it snowed and they cleared the lot, an authenticity concern on rediit was a recent snowstorm but no piles seen. Round 2 tests of some kind, and in cold temps. Hmmmmm....

Balmy temps for a cryo tank

[Flying Beaver]

Looks like it is cryo testing. Lots of LOX/water vapor venting around the tank in this pic via Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQPFQ52gjfn/?tagged=spacex

[docmordrid]

Looks like it is cryo testing. Lots of LOX/water vapor venting around the tank in this pic via Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQPFQ52gjfn/?tagged=spacex

Frost extending half way up? After boosting the brightness it looks so.