Author Topic: CZ-5 - Tianwen-1 TW-1 Mars mission - Wenchang - July 23, 2020 (04:41 UTC)  (Read 70466 times)

Offline Satori

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The Chinese Mars Mission will be launched on August 2020.

[zubenelgenubi: This is the launch thread.  This is the program thread.]
« Last Edit: 11/17/2020 06:58 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline rocx

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #1 on: 04/22/2016 01:28 pm »
The Chinese Mars Mission will be launched on August 2020.
Source? What payload? How certain?
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline Satori

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #2 on: 04/22/2016 02:21 pm »

Offline plutogno

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #3 on: 04/22/2016 03:35 pm »
China aiming to launch Mars mission around 2020
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-04/22/c_135303964.htm

Quote
Xu revealed that the mission was approved by central authorities in January

Offline Star One

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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #5 on: 04/23/2016 12:16 am »
China confirms Mars rover mission.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2016/04/china-confirms-plans-for-a-mars-rover-mission-follows-a-2018-mission-to-explore-dark-side-of-the-moo.html

I wonder how many years it will be before journalists realise that much of China's space activity is under the control of the Chinese academy of science not the military?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline savuporo

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #6 on: 04/23/2016 01:47 am »
I wonder how many years it will be before journalists realise that much of China's space activity is under the control of the Chinese academy of science not the military?
Thats probably one of the smallest offenses, there was some truly awful reporting on this story. But the Mirror takes the cake:
Quote
We British have also sent our own probe to Mars: the ill-fated Beagle II.

This plucky rover was conceived at the height of the Cool Britannia era, using a call sign composed by Blur and a calibration "test card" designed by Damien Hurst.

However, the probe went the way of the many forgotten stars of the 1990s, disappearing without trace in 2003.
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Offline Nordren

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #7 on: 04/23/2016 09:09 am »
China confirms Mars rover mission.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2016/04/china-confirms-plans-for-a-mars-rover-mission-follows-a-2018-mission-to-explore-dark-side-of-the-moo.html

I wonder how many years it will be before journalists realise that much of China's space activity is under the control of the Chinese academy of science not the military?

The military/just for prestige narrative is entrenched, and fits with the worldview of many. It'll take quite a time for the realisation that CNSA is not analogous to NASA, and that the PLA is not in charge of that and all of the things. When missions, particularly crewed, become more regular, then perhaps there will be enough consistent coverage so that reporters will learn. For now, it's cowboys and indians.

Offline quasar

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #8 on: 04/23/2016 09:06 pm »
So China's first Mars mission will include an orbiter, a lander and a rover. A very complex mission and tight schedule for that (some 4 years from official approval to launch). It's radically different from China's previous cautious step-by-step approach with Chang'e program. What's the hurry, if there's really no space race at all?
My guess: ExoMars rover, NASA's 2020 Mars rover and ISRO's Mars rover should all be launched by 2020. After that is another Mars rover maybe not so impressive anymore for the public.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #9 on: 04/24/2016 03:09 am »
So China's first Mars mission will include an orbiter, a lander and a rover. A very complex mission and tight schedule for that (some 4 years from official approval to launch). It's radically different from China's previous cautious step-by-step approach with Chang'e program. What's the hurry, if there's really no space race at all?
My guess: ExoMars rover, NASA's 2020 Mars rover and ISRO's Mars rover should all be launched by 2020. After that is another Mars rover maybe not so impressive anymore for the public.

Not really rushed, development has been going for at least seven years (there were presentations showing field trials of rover prototypes in Mongia at LPSC in 2009, if I recall rightly).  Much of the technology will have been tested on lunar and human missions.  A lead time of over a decade seems reasonable to me. 

It's not a question of rover's being "old hat" after 2020 and so they are rushing. it is just that China obviously thinks their technology will be able to do that by then.  It's how they do things, steadily and maturely.  Very little sign of any rushed development.

If you think that this is too big a step, note that their Chang'e program started with two orbiters (the second then carried out a complex mission to L5 before performing an asteroid flyby), followed by a rover, then a highly complex mission involving lunar free return, Earth entry, L2 Halo orbit and then low lunar orbit.  Their next mission is a sample return.  No intermediate steps of flybys, hard landers, and soft landers.  Their first manned spacecraft is equivalent to what were third generation for both the US and USSR.  No Vostok/Voskhod or Mercury/Gemini equivalents
« Last Edit: 04/24/2016 06:14 am by Dalhousie »
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #10 on: 04/24/2016 03:37 am »
100% agree with you on that!

Offline K210

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #11 on: 04/26/2016 02:30 pm »
an engineer saying that he regrets that India went to Mars before China does not make a space race.
it's not as if the  government had invested to make sure that China went there first.

Remember that it was only a Russian launch failure that prevented a Chinese Mars mission getting to Mars before India.

Until China declared its programmes I don't think that India had lunar or Mars exploration programmes.   And their pretend-piloted programme only appeared after Shenzhou.   So, China isn't racing anyone, but India is trying to race China.

Sorry to get off-topic!

Its not that ISRO did not have programs its that they did not execute them. I remember in a presentation from 1995 where ISRO said chandraayan-1 would be launched by 2001 and a mars orbiter later that decade. We all know that plan fell behind and chinese marched ahead with moon missions and manned mission. Still its good that india is trying to compete as competition is very beneficial for space technology and science as a whole.

Offline K210

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #12 on: 04/26/2016 02:31 pm »
So China's first Mars mission will include an orbiter, a lander and a rover. A very complex mission and tight schedule for that (some 4 years from official approval to launch). It's radically different from China's previous cautious step-by-step approach with Chang'e program. What's the hurry, if there's really no space race at all?
My guess: ExoMars rover, NASA's 2020 Mars rover and ISRO's Mars rover should all be launched by 2020. After that is another Mars rover maybe not so impressive anymore for the public.

A somewhat risky approach for a first (serious) attempt. Not sure if some political factors are coming into play here.

Offline savuporo

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #13 on: 04/26/2016 02:59 pm »
Its not that ISRO did not have programs its that they did not execute them. I remember in a presentation from 1995 where ISRO said chandraayan-1 would be launched by 2001 and a mars orbiter later that decade. We all know that plan fell behind and chinese marched ahead with moon missions and manned mission. Still its good that india is trying to compete as competition is very beneficial for space technology and science as a whole.

According to ISRO official history, Indian moon mission was initially suggested only in 1999 and seriously started to be considered by Astronautical Society of India in 2000. It didnt become called Chandrayaan-1 before 2003.
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #14 on: 04/26/2016 10:22 pm »
So China's first Mars mission will include an orbiter, a lander and a rover. A very complex mission and tight schedule for that (some 4 years from official approval to launch). It's radically different from China's previous cautious step-by-step approach with Chang'e program. What's the hurry, if there's really no space race at all?
My guess: ExoMars rover, NASA's 2020 Mars rover and ISRO's Mars rover should all be launched by 2020. After that is another Mars rover maybe not so impressive anymore for the public.

A somewhat risky approach for a first (serious) attempt. Not sure if some political factors are coming into play here.

Ying-ho 1 was also a serious attempt.

Why do people always look for political factors?  China has a lot of relevant space experience, by 2020 they will have had at least three more lunar missions on the board.  It's not the 60s anymore.

The only way they could split this up would be to send the orbiter first and then a lander.  But that would reduce overall risk by much, if any.
« Last Edit: 04/26/2016 10:25 pm by Dalhousie »
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Ohsin

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #15 on: 04/26/2016 11:30 pm »
Its not that ISRO did not have programs its that they did not execute them. I remember in a presentation from 1995 where ISRO said chandraayan-1 would be launched by 2001 and a mars orbiter later that decade. We all know that plan fell behind and chinese marched ahead with moon missions and manned mission. Still its good that india is trying to compete as competition is very beneficial for space technology and science as a whole.

According to ISRO official history, Indian moon mission was initially suggested only in 1999 and seriously started to be considered by Astronautical Society of India in 2000. It didnt become called Chandrayaan-1 before 2003.

Yeah Should be 11 May 1999. Also according to that book it was first suggested as 'Somayaan' to Prime Minister who announced it as Chandrayaan after consultations of his own.
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Offline luhai167

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #16 on: 05/06/2016 02:43 am »
So China's first Mars mission will include an orbiter, a lander and a rover. A very complex mission and tight schedule for that (some 4 years from official approval to launch). It's radically different from China's previous cautious step-by-step approach with Chang'e program. What's the hurry, if there's really no space race at all?
My guess: ExoMars rover, NASA's 2020 Mars rover and ISRO's Mars rover should all be launched by 2020. After that is another Mars rover maybe not so impressive anymore for the public.

A somewhat risky approach for a first (serious) attempt. Not sure if some political factors are coming into play here.

Ying-ho 1 was also a serious attempt.

Why do people always look for political factors?  China has a lot of relevant space experience, by 2020 they will have had at least three more lunar missions on the board.  It's not the 60s anymore.

The only way they could split this up would be to send the orbiter first and then a lander.  But that would reduce overall risk by much, if any.

Remember the very first post of this thread about a proposed 2015 Orbiter/"semi-soft" Lander mission which ultimately did not happen. (Originally link broken, copy attached) So China has being think about Mars mission for quite a while now, however, the value / (cost + risk) for this mission was not enough for to get a green light, but experience gained from various Chang'e missions since 2011 give the Chinese the confidence to skip the orbiter phase and go directly to a lander.

Also in the first post and link broken. A penetrator mission proposed by SAST/8th Division (the orbiter/land is from CAST/5th Division) which also didn't get the go-ahead. That mission also uses CZ-3B, but is based on the Yinghou-1 platform. Also another relatively low risk mission with existing platforms, though the YH-1 platform didn't get a chance to prove itself.

It there is a truly a race for Mars for political reasons, this project would have gotten a go-ahead, as the India MOM project is already known at the time. Since 2015 mission is using platforms already proven in the CE-1/CE-2 program, it would have being relatively low risk. However, if this mission gotten the go ahead, then Mars missions would overlap with CE3-CE6; I don't think China's deep space exploration program has the resources to support both. In the 2020, Chang'e mission will be over with lots of experience gained, China will have be more capable rockets, and more capable tracking network.  It would be rather meek to limit itself to mission scopes defined nearly a decade before.
« Last Edit: 05/06/2016 04:02 am by luhai167 »

Offline plutogno

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #17 on: 05/26/2016 04:07 pm »
wow! a 40-min video on the Chinese Mars Mission! (in Chinese of course)
http://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/Deepspace/Mars-Exploration/Mars-Probe.html

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #18 on: 05/27/2016 06:05 am »
Some screen grabs I thought were interesting. Images 6 and 7 show the Yinghuo 1 Mars probe that was lost with Phobos-Grunt. The second image shows the lander being ejected from a spacecraft. Looks a little small.
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Re: Chinese Mars mission
« Reply #19 on: 05/27/2016 08:55 am »
Some screen grabs I thought were interesting. Images 6 and 7 show the Yinghuo 1 Mars probe that was lost with Phobos-Grunt. The second image shows the lander being ejected from a spacecraft. Looks a little small.

I thought it looked small too.  I wonder if this is an animation of one of the earlier small lander proposals.  Note too that the lander is released before MOI.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

 

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