Quote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?http://file.scirp.org/Html/8-9801080%5C7aa0f806-9c62-4bf5-ae30-1c09e7756ab9.jpgThis help?Company... need to get but will be back.Shell
@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?
Quote from: SeeShells on 06/29/2015 10:42 pmQuote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?http://file.scirp.org/Html/8-9801080%5C7aa0f806-9c62-4bf5-ae30-1c09e7756ab9.jpgThis help?Company... need to get but will be back.ShellPaul March had also done a quick-and-dirty measurement of a microwave while warming some coffee (~2.45GHz with ~BW +/- 30MHz)...http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36313.0;attach=821772
Been following this thread for a few weeks, decided to hop in to help if I could.Aero, do you need only the most recent MEEP package?I was going to go ahead and compile it from source for you but I found:http://ab-initio.mit.edu/wiki/index.php/Meep_DownloadAccording to the wiki, they have a precompiled source package available:"apt-get install meep h5utils"There is also a parallel source file:"apt-get install meep-mpi"If you need other packages compiled with it or the OpenMPI version, I will see what I can do.
Quote from: jmossman on 06/29/2015 11:43 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 06/29/2015 10:42 pmQuote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?http://file.scirp.org/Html/8-9801080%5C7aa0f806-9c62-4bf5-ae30-1c09e7756ab9.jpgThis help?Company... need to get but will be back.ShellPaul March had also done a quick-and-dirty measurement of a microwave while warming some coffee (~2.45GHz with ~BW +/- 30MHz)...http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36313.0;attach=821772Thank, you this spectrum does make it look like, when using a magnetron, the EM Drive can be switching between modes, so I think we are on to something here: mode superposition at single frequencies + mode switching with the magnetron frequency varying between 2.42 to 2.48 GHzSo the magnetron makes for an always changing situation instead of the frozen standing wave envisioned by Egan.
Quote from: jmossman on 06/29/2015 11:43 pmQuote from: SeeShells on 06/29/2015 10:42 pmQuote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?This help?Company... need to get but will be back.ShellPaul March had also done a quick-and-dirty measurement of a microwave while warming some coffee (~2.45GHz with ~BW +/- 30MHz)...Thank, you this spectrum does make it look like, when using a magnetron, the EM Drive can be switching between modes, so I think we are on to something here: mode superposition at single frequencies + mode switching with the magnetron frequency varying between 2.42 to 2.48 GHzSo the magnetron makes for an always changing situation instead of the frozen standing wave envisioned by Egan.
Quote from: SeeShells on 06/29/2015 10:42 pmQuote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?This help?Company... need to get but will be back.ShellPaul March had also done a quick-and-dirty measurement of a microwave while warming some coffee (~2.45GHz with ~BW +/- 30MHz)...
Quote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?This help?Company... need to get but will be back.Shell
Weird, take a look at: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/act/html/omptv1.htm"On January 31, 2002, the NASA patent application US2002012221 " Apparatus and Method for generating a thrust using a two dimensional asymmetrical capacitor module " has been granted."Looks alot like a shawyer frustum...
...In short, one claim is that an EM Drive is an "inertial ratchet": it resists a change in momentum in one direction, and amplifies a change in the opposite direction. The general mechanism by which this is proposed to work is: by maintaining some "angular momentum" (e.g. the EM field, in the case of the EM drive), the ratchet must oppose changes that would increase its angular momentum, and amplify changes that would decrease its angular momentum -- all in order to obey conservation of momentum. A perfect inertial ratchet would negate acceleration in one direction and amplify acceleration in the other (extracting energy from its angular momentum), regardless of its own mass. Another claim is that this inertial ratchet effect can extract work from external vibrations.I am not certain whether these are reasonable claims. And I suppose the reason why I am painstakingly trying to clearly describe what these claims are is so that they can be properly critiqued. Because TheTraveller's descriptions were so vague, I don't think it was really possible for anyone here to unequivocally refute them....
Guys –I would like to humbly submit for consideration that the efforts in this thread could in effect be viewed as a distributed research project. We have resilient experimenters, brilliant theorists, persistent data analysts.. even some equipment. However, this day in age, there are many other resources potentially available for the community to use - if only we become organized enough to identify and seek them out.What other resources are needed to move forward the collective work taking place here? For example, do we need:- More MEEP analysts, to lessen the load on our brave Aero?- AmazonAWS/Google Cloud compute time?- A recurring schedule of group Google Hangouts to discuss current theory and next steps?- A machine learning/data science expert, to find hidden or subtle relationships?- Funding/donations for equipment? Perhaps held in a multisig scam wallet with a major provider?- A better platform for distributed research projects?- Simply more hobbyists paying attention and contributing views?- Perhaps we don't need anything, and this is the most efficient that we can be?It seems we are all driving towards the same goal.. just some thoughts to consider to take this exploration one efficient step further. Happy to help however possible.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 06/30/2015 12:40 am...The JNaudin website has many variants of Byfield-Brown effect lifters. I remember seeing balsa wood electrostatically driven hoverers in Popular Science in the early 60's. They only work in air and there has been nothing new in over 50 years. The patent you are referring to is something else. It is just an actuator that uses high voltage DC; a kind of capacitor where the two terminals are concentric. It's kind of the same idea as an actuator that uses an iron armatur in a selenoid magnet. When the magnet is energised the armature is pulled in. Similarly when a capacitor is charged up the plates are attracted to each other and that principal can be used to make an actuator as well. There is no relationship to an em-drive cavity except both are empty metal shells and neither one creates momentum out of thin air.
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Quote from: zen-in on 06/30/2015 02:18 amQuote from: rfmwguy on 06/30/2015 12:40 am...The JNaudin website has many variants of Byfield-Brown effect lifters. I remember seeing balsa wood electrostatically driven hoverers in Popular Science in the early 60's. ...There is no relationship to an em-drive cavity except both are empty metal shells and neither one creates momentum out of thin air.Thanks. curious, are u 100% certain, beyond any reasonable doubt, that an "empty shell" can never gain momentum and that propulsion must utilize propellants?
Quote from: rfmwguy on 06/30/2015 12:40 am...The JNaudin website has many variants of Byfield-Brown effect lifters. I remember seeing balsa wood electrostatically driven hoverers in Popular Science in the early 60's. ...There is no relationship to an em-drive cavity except both are empty metal shells and neither one creates momentum out of thin air.
Quote from: apoc2021 on 06/30/2015 01:26 amGuys –I would like to humbly submit for consideration that the efforts in this thread could in effect be viewed as a distributed research project. We have resilient experimenters, brilliant theorists, persistent data analysts.. even some equipment. However, this day in age, there are many other resources potentially available for the community to use - if only we become organized enough to identify and seek them out.What other resources are needed to move forward the collective work taking place here? For example, do we need:- More MEEP analysts, to lessen the load on our brave Aero?- AmazonAWS/Google Cloud compute time?- A recurring schedule of group Google Hangouts to discuss current theory and next steps?- A machine learning/data science expert, to find hidden or subtle relationships?- Funding/donations for equipment? Perhaps held in a multisig scam wallet with a major provider?- A better platform for distributed research projects?- Simply more hobbyists paying attention and contributing views?- Perhaps we don't need anything, and this is the most efficient that we can be?It seems we are all driving towards the same goal.. just some thoughts to consider to take this exploration one efficient step further. Happy to help however possible.I like it, and I certainly like the first bullet. Not so sure about the brave part but the "lessen the load" part sure would help if we could somehow divide the load into parts that could be more responsive to valid and doable requests for data.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 06/30/2015 02:31 amQuote from: zen-in on 06/30/2015 02:18 amQuote from: rfmwguy on 06/30/2015 12:40 am...The JNaudin website has many variants of Byfield-Brown effect lifters. I remember seeing balsa wood electrostatically driven hoverers in Popular Science in the early 60's. ...There is no relationship to an em-drive cavity except both are empty metal shells and neither one creates momentum out of thin air.Thanks. curious, are u 100% certain, beyond any reasonable doubt, that an "empty shell" can never gain momentum and that propulsion must utilize propellants?Propulsion does not always require propellants. For example deep space satellites are often swung around a planets to add delta v. However there is no machine that will by itself create momentum. The em-drive will eventually take its place next to cold fusion, polywater, and 300 MPH submarines in the Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience.
Quote from: aero on 06/29/2015 10:21 pm@SeeShellsYes, I can add as many sources as I want. But someone else must tell me what and where. And will that help the experimenters or theorists? I wonder if the experimenters here will be able to do add many different sources. Just the problem of coming up with the equipment and materials applied in such a way as to avoid degrading the measurements.And what is the noise bandwidth of a magnetron?Aero,These are the calculated TM and TE modes from NASA. Try a couple TM modes, be a good first start to see if it can produce a viable sequence. Double check me Jose if you would like something else... no problem.TM 311 2.4157 Ghz TM 212 2.45032 GhzShell