California Secrets - SpaceX F9 v1.1 Cassiope Launch Party Thread

[spectre9]

I want to see a picture of the rocket and pad. Is that too much to ask?             

I love you ugordan!!!             

Straight on the desktop.

[Bugfix]

I ran it through Photoshop to lighten up the foreground a bit, so we might see more details. The watermark has dissappeared as well.

[Retired Downrange]

It will be amazing to see something that tall landing vertically!

[billh]

This thing is really tall! And it doesn't even have the fairing yet. Thanks for the great picture!

[edkyle99]

Every video from each second stage sep event shows the first stage beginning to tumble before reentry. I don't see how they re-light 3 engines to reduce re-entry speeds without having a stable trajectory. So how else would they be able to do this without cold gas ACS to stabilize and get ready for re-light? It seems, but not sure, that the tumble would be of such a nature that TVC would not be ideal or even possible?

RCS will be needed for an operational system, but I haven't seen anything that says that this v1.1 launch will have first stage RCS.  The goal for this mission is to fly the rocket and reach orbit, with a secondary goal of restarting a first stage engine or engines after staging.  It may not matter if the stage is tumbling.

 - Ed Kyle

[JBF]

Every video from each second stage sep event shows the first stage beginning to tumble before reentry. I don't see how they re-light 3 engines to reduce re-entry speeds without having a stable trajectory. So how else would they be able to do this without cold gas ACS to stabilize and get ready for re-light? It seems, but not sure, that the tumble would be of such a nature that TVC would not be ideal or even possible?

RCS will be needed for an operational system, but I haven't seen anything that says that this v1.1 launch will have first stage RCS.  The goal for this mission is to fly the rocket and reach orbit, with a secondary goal of restarting a first stage engine or engines after staging.  It may not matter if the stage is tumbling.

 - Ed Kyle

There has to be an RCS since they want to do the 3rd burn right before water. If there was no RCS they would not be able to predict orientation. 

[mlindner]

I ran it through Photoshop to lighten up the foreground a bit, so we might see more details. The watermark has dissappeared as well.

It looks like you saved it pretty lossy when you saved it as jpg, can you upload a max quality jpg instead (or png/tiff)?

[mlindner]

Every video from each second stage sep event shows the first stage beginning to tumble before reentry. I don't see how they re-light 3 engines to reduce re-entry speeds without having a stable trajectory. So how else would they be able to do this without cold gas ACS to stabilize and get ready for re-light? It seems, but not sure, that the tumble would be of such a nature that TVC would not be ideal or even possible?

RCS will be needed for an operational system, but I haven't seen anything that says that this v1.1 launch will have first stage RCS.  The goal for this mission is to fly the rocket and reach orbit, with a secondary goal of restarting a first stage engine or engines after staging.  It may not matter if the stage is tumbling.

 - Ed Kyle

If they don't have active control while engines are not running, there isn't much chance of the mission happening. Thus, they have active control. Jason stated it as well.

[ugordan]

It looks like you saved it pretty lossy when you saved it as jpg, can you upload a max quality jpg instead (or png/tiff)?

That's because the source image was captured from an MPEG-2 stream (or something) off the camera. SpaceX uses digital feeds from their cameras, which is also why they have audio-video sync problems.

[mlindner]

It looks like you saved it pretty lossy when you saved it as jpg, can you upload a max quality jpg instead (or png/tiff)?

That's because the source image was captured from an MPEG-2 stream (or something) off the camera. SpaceX uses digital feeds from their cameras, which is also why they have audio-video sync problems.

No no, I mean when he did his photoshop work the quality got worse. You can see that the original has heavy dithering while in the photoshopped image the dithering has been converted into many macroblocks.

[ugordan]

It looks like you saved it pretty lossy when you saved it as jpg, can you upload a max quality jpg instead (or png/tiff)?

That's because the source image was captured from an MPEG-2 stream (or something) off the camera. SpaceX uses digital feeds from their cameras, which is also why they have audio-video sync problems.

No no, I mean when he did his photoshop work the quality got worse. You can see that the original has heavy dithering while in the photoshopped image the dithering has been converted into many macroblocks.

Yes yes, I'm saying the macroblocks are there in the source image, just not as noticeable in the darker parts of the image.

[smoliarm]

I don't know why some are expecting to see a stage sitting itself softly onto the ocean surface during this first flight.  This first flight is only an experiment in engine restarting really.  I would be surprised if the thing survived reentry.  I'm not sure the stage has any directional control, for example, besides Merlin TVC.     
 - Ed Kyle

It has cold gas ACS.

For the first flight?  Do you have a link?

 - Ed Kyle

I guess this is the link:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30385.msg1023706#msg1023706

Reply #705 on: 03/08/2013

Some notes from a presentation today:
-1.1 qualification tank on structural stand in Texas will be rebuilt as next Grasshopper, with flight-like landing legs
-First 1.1 vehicle ships from Hawthorne to Texas late March
-After separation during its first launch, the 1.1 first stage will flip around using cold gas thrusters, and relight its engine to reenter more slowly. Then it will try to "land" on the ocean as practice for eventually landing back near the pad.
-Underground test stand in Texas is currently for FH only, but could change.

[Bugfix]

I ran it through Photoshop to lighten up the foreground a bit, so we might see more details. The watermark has dissappeared as well.

It looks like you saved it pretty lossy when you saved it as jpg, can you upload a max quality jpg instead (or png/tiff)?

Um, I know next to nothing about image processing and have bad eyesight even when corrected. Furthermore, I didn't realize that the original image is a PNG and not a JPEG. But this explains why Photoshop wouldn't open the file in the first place and I had to open it in Paint and save it as JPEG... So here's my second try, this time opened in Photoshop as PNG and saved as such. 

[edkyle99]

I don't know why some are expecting to see a stage sitting itself softly onto the ocean surface during this first flight.  This first flight is only an experiment in engine restarting really.  I would be surprised if the thing survived reentry.  I'm not sure the stage has any directional control, for example, besides Merlin TVC.     
 - Ed Kyle

It has cold gas ACS.

For the first flight?  Do you have a link?

 - Ed Kyle

I guess this is the link:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30385.msg1023706#msg1023706

Reply #705 on: 03/08/2013

Some notes from a presentation today:
-1.1 qualification tank on structural stand in Texas will be rebuilt as next Grasshopper, with flight-like landing legs
-First 1.1 vehicle ships from Hawthorne to Texas late March
-After separation during its first launch, the 1.1 first stage will flip around using cold gas thrusters, and relight its engine to reenter more slowly. Then it will try to "land" on the ocean as practice for eventually landing back near the pad.
-Underground test stand in Texas is currently for FH only, but could change.

Super!  Thank you. 

That adds complexity to an inaugural flight.  I suppose that the cold gas RCS will also have to do the ullage thrusting prior to engine restart.  Still, I've seen no hint of this RCS hardware in any photos so far.

 - Ed Kyle

[guckyfan]

That adds complexity to an inaugural flight.  I suppose that the cold gas RCS will also have to do the ullage thrusting prior to engine restart.  Still, I've seen no hint of this RCS hardware in any photos so far.

 - Ed Kyle

No need to use the RCS for that purpose IMO. The atmosphere will do that in time. No need for braking thrust as long as the atmosphere is too thin.

[LaunchedIn68]

Thank you for that pad pic.  That is a tall beast!  (Kinda reminds me of 'The Stick' Sorry.)

1. So is that the top of the second stage we're looking at?  And just an adapter ring then payload on top?

2. What is that stucture in the background?  Is it a service structure of another pad?

3. Why no lightning protection towers?  (Do they just not get TStorms?)

4. Is the thrust from F9 V1.1 comparable to Saturn 1B?

Thanks in advance!

[smoliarm]

Thank you for that pad pic.  That is a tall beast!  (Kinda reminds me of 'The Stick' Sorry.)

1. So is that the top of the second stage we're looking at?  And just an adapter ring then payload on top?

2. What is that stucture in the background?  Is it a service structure of another pad?

3. Why no lightning protection towers?  (Do they just not get TStorms?)

4. Is the thrust from F9 V1.1 comparable to Saturn 1B?

Thanks in advance!

1 - yes. yes, plus fairing.
2 - yes, it is LC-4W (SpaceX uses LC-4E)
3 - 
4 -
Saturn 1B = 1,600,000 lbf
F9 V1.1 = 1,100,000 lbf

[Step55]

This thing is really tall! And it doesn't even have the fairing yet. Thanks for the great picture!

She reminds me of Twiggy 

Twiggy was the world's first supermodel: a skinny kid with the face of an angel who became an icon

[renclod]

There has to be an RCS since they want to do the 3rd burn right before water. If there was no RCS they would not be able to predict orientation. 

How about a (small) parachute ? RCS is ineffective at low altitude.

[ChrisWilson68]

Saturn 1B = 1,600,000 lbf
F9 V1.1 = 1,100,000 lbf

1,100,000 lbf is for F9v1.0.  For F9v1.1 the figure is 1,323,000 lbf at sea level, 1,500,000 lbf in vacuum.

http://www.spacex.com/falcon9