My former supervisor once said, "if we have to fight WWII again, we would loose". He did not like some of our suppliers, with parts missing bolts and nuts.
So who's actually responsible for SLS? I mean someone who can actually be held accountable for this? I guess the biggest issue is that year after year, schedule slip after schedule slip, billion after billion, nobody has been held accountable? Does everyone get a prize for just showing up? If there's no repercussions, then there's no skin in the game and....well, we all know how that works out.So, seriously, who the hell is running this show?
So, who is Mike?
Quote from: rcoppola on 05/15/2018 09:03 pmSo who's actually responsible for SLS?Ha....Yeh, got a few hundred threads about all that on here. I wasn't asking the "big" who but the actual, who. As in, "Go ask Mike what the heck is going on. He's the one in charge of this mess..." So, who is Mike?
So who's actually responsible for SLS?
Quote from: johnfwhitesell on 05/15/2018 09:15 pmQuote from: rcoppola on 05/15/2018 09:03 pmSo who's actually responsible for SLS?Brief history:Shuttle blew up a second time, we decided to retire the shuttleWanted to keep going to space so Ares program emergedAres program was a dog so Obama cancelled itThe Senate was up in arms at Ares being cancelled (jobs in the right states and we didn't have alternative heavy rockets)They compromised and made the SLS, like the Ares but a little cheaperHa....Yeh, got a few hundred threads about all that on here. I wasn't asking the "big" who but the actual, who. As in, "Go ask Mike what the heck is going on. He's the one in charge of this mess..." So, who is Mike?
Quote from: rcoppola on 05/15/2018 09:03 pmSo who's actually responsible for SLS?Brief history:Shuttle blew up a second time, we decided to retire the shuttleWanted to keep going to space so Ares program emergedAres program was a dog so Obama cancelled itThe Senate was up in arms at Ares being cancelled (jobs in the right states and we didn't have alternative heavy rockets)They compromised and made the SLS, like the Ares but a little cheaper
So, seriously, who the hell is running this show?
^^ Congress is the answerThat's why there is no responsibility and it is just chugging along. It is doing EXACTLY what it's supposed to be doing.
Nor should anyone bring up Direct 3.0 (What is Ross doing these days, anyways?) Which would have been up and running 4 years ago.
Quote from: rcoppola on 05/15/2018 09:20 pmQuote from: johnfwhitesell on 05/15/2018 09:15 pmQuote from: rcoppola on 05/15/2018 09:03 pmSo who's actually responsible for SLS?Brief history:Shuttle blew up a second time, we decided to retire the shuttleWanted to keep going to space so Ares program emergedAres program was a dog so Obama cancelled itThe Senate was up in arms at Ares being cancelled (jobs in the right states and we didn't have alternative heavy rockets)They compromised and made the SLS, like the Ares but a little cheaperHa....Yeh, got a few hundred threads about all that on here. I wasn't asking the "big" who but the actual, who. As in, "Go ask Mike what the heck is going on. He's the one in charge of this mess..." So, who is Mike?My understanding:- NASA MSFC is in charge of overall SLS launcher design and manufacturing with Boeing supporting it for some System design activities- Boeing is the contractor in charge of the Core stage and the avionics ring- ULA is in charge of iCPS stage- ATK is in charge of the boosters- Completely separately, NASA JSC is in charge of the Orion spacecraft with Lockheed-Martin as its main contractor.So I guess that Mike in this case would be the SLS program manager at MSFC : John Honeycutt (according to https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-names-john-honeycutt-space-launch-system-program-manager)Of course this guy operates in a very constrained & political environment, but in the end he is still responsible for the project.
That would be Griffin, Dr.It was his order to change the results of the original ESAS study that set this specific line of domino's falling.I never did find out the precise reason for him choosing to do that, but all the pieces of the puzzle available to me primarily point to ATK as the prime force that influenced that specific decision.
What I'll never understand is that Griffin apparently hated the Scotty rocket, yet he still forced the ESAS team to change the study results and promote the 1.5 launch solution ahead of the LV-24/25 'simple' SDHLV that actually scored higher in the original pre-adjusted review.
Of course this guy operates in a very constrained & political environment, but in the end he is still responsible for the project.
Quote from: SgtPoivre on 05/17/2018 05:37 amOf course this guy operates in a very constrained & political environment, but in the end he is still responsible for the project.Let's remember that NASA did not design the SLS, Congress did. And all they did was provide some loose requirements.So blaming NASA for the plight of the SLS is like blaming the cook on a submarine for not having fresh vegetables - they can only work with what they were given...
Quote from: kraisee on 05/16/2018 09:21 pmThat would be Griffin, Dr.It was his order to change the results of the original ESAS study that set this specific line of domino's falling.I never did find out the precise reason for him choosing to do that, but all the pieces of the puzzle available to me primarily point to ATK as the prime force that influenced that specific decision.My guess would be that he struck a deal with the Shuttle-state congresspeople: he agreed to use a Shuttle-derived architecture and they agreed to fund his moon program. Unfortunately for us space cadets, Griffin got snookered in that the congresspeople didn't really care about going to the moon, they just wanted the hardware development for its jobs and money. They knew they could keep that coming without funding NASA at the level needed to actually go to the moon. The resulting endless development that continues today is precisely what the they. The gravy train will end some day, but it has lasted through multiple election cycles, and that's practically forever in terms of practical politics. The current score is Shuttle States 40 billion or so, Space Cadets 0.
QuoteWhat I'll never understand is that Griffin apparently hated the Scotty rocket, yet he still forced the ESAS team to change the study results and promote the 1.5 launch solution ahead of the LV-24/25 'simple' SDHLV that actually scored higher in the original pre-adjusted review.What is the Scotty rocket?
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 05/17/2018 05:42 pmQuote from: SgtPoivre on 05/17/2018 05:37 amOf course this guy operates in a very constrained & political environment, but in the end he is still responsible for the project.Let's remember that NASA did not design the SLS, Congress did. And all they did was provide some loose requirements.So blaming NASA for the plight of the SLS is like blaming the cook on a submarine for not having fresh vegetables - they can only work with what they were given...I do not fully share your statement, that's standard practice in the industry to have to manage whimsical clients who provide loose, un-specific and inconsistent operational needs.Think about having a middle-east Emir as your client for a complex combat system.Congress does bear some responsibility but it is NASA which defined the detailed specification for this launcher system and who is responsible for managing the program.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 05/17/2018 05:42 pmQuote from: SgtPoivre on 05/17/2018 05:37 amOf course this guy operates in a very constrained & political environment, but in the end he is still responsible for the project.Let's remember that NASA did not design the SLS, Congress did. And all they did was provide some loose requirements.So blaming NASA for the plight of the SLS is like blaming the cook on a submarine for not having fresh vegetables - they can only work with what they were given...I do not fully share your statement, that's standard practice in the industry to have to manage whimsical clients who provide loose, un-specific and inconsistent operational needs.Think about having a middle-east Emir as your client for a complex combat system.
Congress does bear some responsibility but it is NASA which defined the detailed specification for this launcher system and who is responsible for managing the program.