Author Topic: Planetary Resources  (Read 401236 times)

Offline edzieba

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1020 on: 11/02/2018 01:39 pm »
Or alternately: selling shares priced only in Company Scrip.

Offline edzieba

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1021 on: 11/03/2018 07:51 am »
A blockchain doesn't make much sense in this situation. For a mining patent to be useful it has to be enforceable. There is no inherent characteristic around that chunk of rock that links it to any particular scamgraphic signature, so it relies on a third party observer to say "this X tons of material are from this claim". If you are reliant on that third party authority, then you may as well dispense with the blockchain rigmarole and just use a standard database.

Offline Lar

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1022 on: 11/03/2018 01:54 pm »
A blockchain doesn't make much sense in this situation. For a mining patent to be useful it has to be enforceable. There is no inherent characteristic around that chunk of rock that links it to any particular scamgraphic signature, so it relies on a third party observer to say "this X tons of material are from this claim". If you are reliant on that third party authority, then you may as well dispense with the blockchain rigmarole and just use a standard database.
IBM believes that there is value in blockchain for certain kinds of transactions. I am not an official spokesperson for IBM (which is a relief to just about anyone at IBM I am sure) but I have to give my employer some credence. Is this transaction one of those kinds?

I think the argument can be made that there is business value in being able to register a claim but not disclose who the claimant is.

I think the argument can be made that there is business value in being able to prove definitively that a claim was made at a particular point in time without requiring a central authority (which may be difficult to communicate with) be involved in the registration.

Whether these arguments carry the day for you? YMMV. I myself am not convinced of a yes, but not certain the answer is no.

"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Tulse

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1023 on: 11/05/2018 03:04 pm »
I think the argument can be made that there is business value in being able to prove definitively that a claim was made at a particular point in time without requiring a central authority (which may be difficult to communicate with) be involved in the registration.
I thought that blockchain tech relied precisely on the ability of everyone involved to communicate with every other participating party, otherwise the ledgers on individual machines are not synched up.  It seems unlikely to me that one couldn't communicate with a centralized registrar while at the same time be able to send ledger updates to everyone else.  But perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here...

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1024 on: 11/05/2018 04:28 pm »
Here is a deeper and more thoughtful bit of analysis of the ConsenSys/Planetary acquisition, written by one Giulio Prisco who seems to have a background as a theoretical physicist, and computer scientist.
 
ConsenSys and Planetary Resources: First reactions
by Giulio Prisco, of Chainrift Research

At the end of that piece, I learned Giulio wrote this piece in Motherboard in July 2017:  Why We Need a Decentralized Autonomous Space Agency
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline AdrianW

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1025 on: 11/05/2018 08:33 pm »
Here is a deeper and more thoughtful bit of analysis of the ConsenSys/Planetary acquisition, written by one Giulio Prisco who seems to have a background as a theoretical physicist, and computer scientist.
 
ConsenSys and Planetary Resources: First reactions
by Giulio Prisco, of Chainrift Research

Ugh, just the same old scamcurrency drivel as always. Two things the article (if you can even call it that – after the introduction, it's about 80% quotes) gets wrong:
1) As long as the executives or employees of a mining company live or work on Earth, they are subject to some jurisdiction, so you don't need decentralized smart contracts – in case of dispute, regular law will always trump blockchain contracts.
2) Absent of a centralized authority enforcing a smart contract in space, sheer physical force will always override claims in the blockchain. Sure, you can have "swarms of intelligent robots extracting that incredible new wealth" using "consensus mechanism to allocate the resources of communication, energy, transportation, and financial resources", but when China, Russia, or the US should decide that it owns the asteroid you're currently harvesting, you're borked – unless you have real-world diplomatic ties to other major players.

Offline edzieba

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1026 on: 11/06/2018 12:21 pm »
A blockchain doesn't make much sense in this situation. For a mining patent to be useful it has to be enforceable. There is no inherent characteristic around that chunk of rock that links it to any particular scamgraphic signature, so it relies on a third party observer to say "this X tons of material are from this claim". If you are reliant on that third party authority, then you may as well dispense with the blockchain rigmarole and just use a standard database.
IBM believes that there is value in blockchain for certain kinds of transactions. I am not an official spokesperson for IBM (which is a relief to just about anyone at IBM I am sure) but I have to give my employer some credence. Is this transaction one of those kinds?

I think the argument can be made that there is business value in being able to register a claim but not disclose who the claimant is.

I think the argument can be made that there is business value in being able to prove definitively that a claim was made at a particular point in time without requiring a central authority (which may be difficult to communicate with) be involved in the registration.

Whether these arguments carry the day for you? YMMV. I myself am not convinced of a yes, but not certain the answer is no.
I'm all for distributed ledgers for mutually enforced scamgraphic signing, they work extremely well in that regard. The problem is that unless your scamgraphic signatures are inherently valuable (as in scamcurrencies like Bitcoin) or can directly sign a valuable data structure (and where it is the signing that is valuable in and of it's own right, as with proposed copyright attribution ledgers) then a distributed ledger does not offer any real advantages, and adds some brand new disadvantages over a traditionally hosted ledger (AKA a database).
Unlike a transitionally hosted database, where maintenance funding is fairly trivial (pay a host to host and administer it) there is no way to directly pay the participants in a distributed ledger network, so that network needs to have some inherent reward for hosting. In every single attempt thus far, that hosting reward has completely taken over the network and any other functionality becomes a footnote. This can be sustainable if designed from the start and if you can convince everyone the hosting reward (that network's 'company scrip') has sufficient value in and of itself to be exchanged for other currencies, and you can grow the network large enough for that footnote function to fulfil the role you need it to, but otherwise that footnote invariably ends up getting designed out by economic pressure (i.e. someone writes a more efficient variant or outright fork that dikes out your 'pointless' original function in favour of more efficient rewards, and the network switches to that version that offers better returns).
The other issue is in actually linking the unknown/minimally-known contents of an arbitrary mobile physical volume to a specific scamgraphic signature. If you can scrounge up the funds to create an authority (or collection of authorities) to actually enforce claims, the costs of hosting the database of claims is an utterly minuscule proportion of that.


I'm all for distributed ledgers in applications where they make sense (most of which likely have not even been dreamt up yet) but like the dot-com era tactic of slapping "... but on the internet!" to any and everything, not every data store is a nail to the blockchain hammer.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1027 on: 05/07/2019 10:29 pm »
The lesson learned is that it is hard to find investors willing to wait decades to get the first revenues from asteroid mining.


Offline Danderman

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1028 on: 05/07/2019 10:30 pm »
I don’t think that the blockchain company that salvaged Planetary Resources had any interests in mining patents.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1029 on: 05/12/2020 06:56 am »
I don’t think that the blockchain company that salvaged Planetary Resources had any interests in mining patents.

Indeed, from http://www.parabolicarc.com/2020/05/11/from-trillionaires-to-open-source-ware-planetary-resources-falls-to-earth/ Planetary Resources patents have been open sourced:

https://www.consensys.space/pr

and assets are being auctioned off:

Quote
PLANETARY RESOURCES/AEROSPACE R&D - ONLINE ONLY
CNC Machine Shop, Lab & Office Furniture

Start Date: 11:00 AM | Thursday - May 28
End Date: 11:00 AM | Thursday - June 4
Preview 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM | Wednesday, June 3
LOCATION: 6742 185TH AVE NE., REDMOND, WA 98052

https://www.murphyauction.com/Auction/Details/8243

I wonder what this item (attached) will go for
https://www.murphyauction.com/Auction/Details/8243/Item/110

Offline Rondaz

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1030 on: 05/25/2020 05:44 pm »
Today (5/25), Hayabusa2 achieved 2000 days of space flight & passed the mid-point for the return trip! The remaining distance is ~400 million km. Ion engines & flight course are good. Operations continue, hoping that Ryugu’s treasure will arrive at a peaceful Earth --PM Tsuda.

https://twitter.com/haya2e_jaxa/status/1264785230033874956

Offline su27k

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Re: Planetary Resources
« Reply #1031 on: 12/02/2021 03:49 am »
https://twitter.com/interplanetary/status/1466199114253701124

Quote
Space Crowdfunding takes off?

I saw the headline in my daily email from @SpaceNews_Inc I added the "?"

Personally, I think crowdfunding currently is a terrible way to raise money for your space startup, and at best, and it's an option of last resort.

🧵 begin(rant) Here's why.



First, the space crowdfunding (partial) list via @spacereportr from @SpaceNews_Inc

2012 / $106K NanoSatisfi
2020 /$1350K @SolstarOFFICIAL
2021 / $618K @OACspace
2021 / $231K Launchspace Technologies
2021 / $129K @aphelionaerosp
2021 / $142K @EX0space



While it didn't make the list, it appears Planetary Resources still holds the space crowdfunding record, having raised $1,505,276 via Kickstarter for "ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone" in 2013 - a project we later cancelled and refunded to backers.



While the Planetary Resources kickstarter didn't raise as much as the recent @ConstitutionDAO, it faced a similar challenge in refunding contributions, with 17,000+ backers, transaction fees, and no simple method to "reverse" transactions. Still were able to refund about ~80%.



The reason for the refund was failing to meet a challenge in common with these recent equity crowd-funders: The amount raised was a too-small fraction of funds needed to execute the project. Even by focusing on early milestones, it operates in an environment of high-friction.



Upon closing your crowdfunding round, you now have 100s, maybe 1000s of new stakeholders in your company, and most of the paperwork and reporting obligations necessary with "regular" equity financing.

Like any investor, your new supporters have high hopes for an ROI.



You can still write one newsletter and distribute it to your community, but unlike a community of professional investors, it is less likely you are going to find well-connected, experienced assistance from your crowdfunding community. Normal investors bring value beyond their $.



An experienced investor—excited about your company and its offering—can open doors of opportunity for you, give you critical feedback to hone your business approach, and help "credential" your and your business going forward.



A community of crowd-funders probably provides NONE of this. If you need to raise another round of funding (and since you're funding a space company, it is VERY LIKELY that you will) you're starting from scratch w.r.t. these should-be assets.



It is possible that crowdfunding can help you get needed funds without needing to learn how to play the "investor seed funding" game, and can get your company through a key progress milestone that levels you up for professional investors in the next round.



Crowdfunding is also GREAT when it is members of your addressable market and future customers who are helping to bring that same product or service to market.



But in a space business, its very unlikely that both (A) your crowdfunders are your customers and (B) the amount of funding you raise will be the amount you need to deploy the product to the marketplace. It's a stop-gap.



So you will probably need to raise more money — and what is the likelihood that those prior crowd-investors will "double down" and invest again? What is the likelihood that they will encourage others to join the investment round?



Maybe you're considering crowdfunding because you HAVE pitched your idea to investors, and none of them have said yes... yet. That might actually be a feedback signal that you are not currently communicating a compelling business proposition.



In my experience, investors are usually NOT courteous in giving a prompt or direct "no", and instead give you a to-do list of things they'd like to see before they'd consider the investment further. You're often educating them about a market view (for free!), why turn that down?



With the Planetary Resources ARKYD Kickstarter, it was our *hope* that we would have been able to raise the entire amount needed (we estimated about $12M), as the Pebble watch had done just prior to our own campaign in 2013.



We intentionally set our raise amount "low", with the idea that momentum and excitement would accelerate after easily passing the "funded" threshold. We were wrong about that, yet we crossed the threshold, so the project was technically "on."



From then, we were optimistic that the "social proof" from the interest in Space Telescope access, and "Space Selfies" would help us find and close the revenue and sponsorship from other sources to complete the project.



All of this was in-line with the thinking that we wanted to find and leverage revenue streams that were natural outcomes of our core business interest — creating small satellite platforms capable of prospecting resources on asteroids.



But in 2016, after three years of trying, we weren't any closer to funding the project from a business use case that would serve a scalable revenue model. So we regrettably shut it down, and refunded as much of the funds that we were able, as it was the right thing to do.



Referencing @mmealling's Christmas list, perhaps there are some reforms and improvements which could make it easier for earlier-stage space companies to get broader access to seed capital.



There are also more space-focused funds like @SpaceAngels, @SpaceFundInc, @starbridgevc, @SeraphimCapital which are about the same effort as crowdfunding, but give you access to investors who can write larger $$$ checks, and give a higher leverage path to future funds & support.



Another model is @AngelistList syndicate. Within ~24 hours of the opportunity being posted, I was able to raise about $2.5M to join in the Planetary Resources Series-A round. You have to find a "lead investor" though. help.venture.angel.co/hc/en-us/artic…



Instead of resorting to a more forgiving investment environment like crowdfunding, you might be better served by listening carefully to the accumulated feedback about your business, adjust your approach, and try pitching it again. It might take 100 tries (not an exaggeration).



That said, if you've already raised crowdfunding, or are in the midst of it, its not necessarily detrimental to your future! Focus on using those funds to meet milestones which are key in the progress towards serving your future customers, and building confidence for all.



Crowdfunding end(rant).

There aren't yet many space-related business models which can start with low capital and grow organically from revenues. Repeatedly closing investment continues to be a key part of the business strategy, and is as important as your business model itself.



I'm interested in learning from the recent history of space and deep tech business funding and growth, and sharing what I learn. What is another perspective on funding and growing space companies?


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