Author Topic: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]  (Read 10228 times)

Offline JimO

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China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« on: 12/29/2011 04:09 am »
Third 'white paper', issued at 5-year intervals --

As we speak, Xinhua is posting sections of the document about every ten minutes, at http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/sci/space.htm.
the operator skipped "9", and sections '4' and '5' have non-functional URLs, but i'm piecing together the other items through 12 [so far].

Feature overview here:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2011-12/29/c_131332974.htm

...and about half a dozen other themed summaries are also on line now...

05:19 gmt UPDATE: The editor backfilled 9, added 13, and the 4 & 5 links are now working, with lots more to come, apparently.
« Last Edit: 12/29/2011 04:19 am by JimO »

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #1 on: 12/29/2011 05:38 pm »
Interesting description of the Long March 6 that I hadn't seen before:

Quote
The Long March-6 will be a new type of high-speed response launch vehicle, which will be capable of placing not less than 1 ton of payload into a sun-synchronous orbit at a height of 700 km.

"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #2 on: 12/29/2011 05:44 pm »
Since this is the Chinese Launchers section, here's what the paper says about them:

Quote
II. Major Tasks for the Next Five Years

[snip preamble]

1. Space Transportation System

China will build a stronger space transportation system, keep improving its launch vehicle series, and enhance their capabilities of entering space.

It will enhance the reliability and adaptability of launch vehicles in service, and develop new-generation launch vehicles and their upper stages, implement the first flight of the Long March-5, Long March-6 and Long March-7 launch vehicles. The Long March-5 will use non-toxic and pollution-free propellant, and will be capable of placing 25 tons of payload into the near-Earth orbit, or placing 14 tons of payload into the GEO orbit. The Long March-6 will be a new type of high-speed response launch vehicle, which will be capable of placing not less than 1 ton of payload into a sun-synchronous orbit at a height of 700 km. The Long March-7 will be capable of placing 5.5 tons of payload into a sun-synchronous orbit at a height of 700 km.

It will conduct special demonstrations and pre-research on key technologies for heavy-lift launch vehicles.
"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline go4mars

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #3 on: 12/29/2011 07:18 pm »
It will conduct special demonstrations and pre-research on key technologies for heavy-lift launch vehicles.
I hope that's the UR-700M class rocket...
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #4 on: 12/29/2011 07:33 pm »
Is there somewhere to download the White Paper as a single file rather than spread over different web pages?
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline apace

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #5 on: 12/29/2011 07:38 pm »
It will conduct special demonstrations and pre-research on key technologies for heavy-lift launch vehicles.
I hope that's the UR-700M class rocket...


Never ever ;-) UR-700 type is 750t to LEO. China is talking about 50t to LEO for their haevy-lift rocket.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #6 on: 12/29/2011 08:56 pm »
It will conduct special demonstrations and pre-research on key technologies for heavy-lift launch vehicles.
I hope that's the UR-700M class rocket...
Never ever ;-) UR-700 type is 750t to LEO. China is talking about 50t to LEO for their haevy-lift rocket.

Actually there are some Chinese papers available on the manned lunar programme thread which discuss possible Chinese vehicles which are in the same class as Ares-V.   Of course, these are design studies, not hard-and-fast plans, but they are indicative of the Chinese thinking.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #7 on: 12/29/2011 09:53 pm »
Is there somewhere to download the White Paper as a single file rather than spread over different web pages?

Here are the individual items available so far stuck into a PDF.

Edit: Correct grammar.
« Last Edit: 12/29/2011 09:57 pm by ChileVerde »
"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #8 on: 12/29/2011 10:36 pm »
There is a rather sloppy Associated Press article about this with the following quote: "Some elements of China's program, notably the firing of a ground-based missile into one of its dead satellites four years ago, have alarmed American officials and others who say such moves could set off a race to militarize space."

No mention that this was an "anti-satellite" test, or that it created a huge amount of debris, or that more than the Americans were upset.

I get the impression that the reporter or an editor did not want to say that the missile "intercepted" or "destroyed" the satellite, so the missile was fired "into" a dead satellite. But why not use the more accurate and descriptive terms?

Here's the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/12/29/world/asia/AP-AS-China-Space.html?_r=2&hp

Offline go4mars

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #9 on: 12/29/2011 11:19 pm »
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline go4mars

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #10 on: 12/29/2011 11:28 pm »
Never ever ;-) UR-700 type is 750t to LEO. China is talking about 50t to LEO for their haevy-lift rocket.
I'm pretty sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  50t isn't very advantageous over CZ-5.  Zhang Guitian talked about Chinese plans for UR-700M sized launcher at a conference in 2006.  I don't know what the current thinking is but it wouldn't surprise me to see China eclipse the States in one more way. 
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #11 on: 12/29/2011 11:39 pm »
There is a rather sloppy Associated Press article about this with the following quote: "Some elements of China's program, notably the firing of a ground-based missile into one of its dead satellites four years ago, have alarmed American officials and others who say such moves could set off a race to militarize space."

No mention that this was an "anti-satellite" test, or that it created a huge amount of debris, or that more than the Americans were upset.

I get the impression that the reporter or an editor did not want to say that the missile "intercepted" or "destroyed" the satellite, so the missile was fired "into" a dead satellite. But why not use the more accurate and descriptive terms?


"The firing of a ground-based missile into one of its dead satellites" does sound weird, almost as if it were an overly-literal translation from some other language. I could make it work in Russian(*),but that seems a slight stretch. And, language aside, the content doesn't really convey what has been said about the event.

Are there any Chinese articles that could have been the source of this?

(*) There's a Pushkin story that's relevant, though it dealt with flies rather than satellites.

Edit: Removes but that seems a slight stretch. The more I look at it, the more it looks like translated Russian.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 12:01 am by ChileVerde »
"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline spacex

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #12 on: 12/30/2011 01:02 am »
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/world/asia/china-unveils-ambitious-plan-to-explore-space.html

Main Times article on the white paper. Some analysis by experts like John Logsdon and Andrew Erickson.
« Last Edit: 12/30/2011 01:05 am by spacex »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #13 on: 12/30/2011 01:50 am »
Good article, thanks for the link. Well, this is the difference between a “planned economy” by a central government compared with ours in the U.S. which is in a constant state of “election mode”. Once a sitting president is in office after two years they already must begin planning for the next election. If you through in the mid-term elections, you can begin to see why any grand long term spaceflight plan cannot come to fruition. Just another one of the reasons that things don’t get done in government any more. I’m not advocating a Communist government, but even American business leaders like 5 year planned economies for stability’s sake. I have no doubt that they can accomplish what they say. They may in the 1960’s era spaceflight wise but they don’t have to invent the technology like the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. had to. They will catch up exponentionally…
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline HappyMartian

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #14 on: 12/30/2011 03:37 am »
Is there somewhere to download the White Paper as a single file rather than spread over different web pages?

Here are the individual items available so far stuck into a PDF.

Edit: Correct grammar.

Thank you ChileVerde!

Cheers!
"The Moon is the most accessible destination for realizing commercial, exploration and scientific objectives beyond low Earth orbit." - LEAG

Offline apace

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #15 on: 12/30/2011 07:25 am »

Short report on front page of one of the largest swiss newspapers:
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wissen/technik/China-plant-die-Reise-zum-Mond/story/15220400

"China plans to travel to the moon"

Not anything new, but a note to the current capabilities of the states compared to china to transfer no men into space for the next years.

Offline HappyMartian

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #16 on: 12/30/2011 07:46 am »
At: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8983929/China-declares-plans-for-mission-to-the-moon.html

China declares plans for mission to the moon
"China has declared its intent to send a man to the moon, aiming to become the first nation to reach the lunar surface since the last American mission in 1972."

And, "The scale of China's plans come in stark contrast to those of the United States, the first and only nation to reach the moon in 1969."

And, "George W Bush proposed an American return to the moon but the programme was halted by Barack Obama, citing the enormous cost."
 
"The Moon is the most accessible destination for realizing commercial, exploration and scientific objectives beyond low Earth orbit." - LEAG

Offline ChileVerde

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #17 on: 12/30/2011 01:36 pm »

The whole thing is now at

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-12/30/content_14354558.htm

Apparently the 13 parts Xinhua ran are all there is.
"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

Offline Danderman

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #18 on: 12/30/2011 01:48 pm »
What is clear from the White Paper is that China plans to evolve its space program along familiar lines; their program does not envision radical breakthroughs over the next five years.

There will not be a Salyut-class station in the next five years.

There will not be any form of RLV or new type of passenger craft in the next five years.

There will not be a launch vehicle larger than the 25 ton LM5 class vehicle.

They are not planning to develop the infrastructure for BEO missions in the next five years, although they plan "studies" (which are what most people here hate).


Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: China Space Strategy "White Paper" [Dec 29]
« Reply #19 on: 12/31/2011 02:01 pm »
I just read the combined PDF.

Excellent overview of recent Chinese space history, and a welcome muted prognostication of their plans for the future.  I particularly liked their understated comment to develop a plan for a human lunar landing.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

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