New Glenn will be fully reusable eventually. Probably sooner if BFR succeeds.
I think SpaceX can possibly go it alone for Mars cargo missions, but I highly doubt they can go it alone (i.e. without NASA) for the first human mission.
SpaceX knows better than anybody how to develop a clean-sheet launch system. The lack of any delays or drama in the Raptor development program demonstrates a mastery of liquid rocket propulsion.
Remember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever.
Quote from: spacenut on 05/15/2018 12:47 pmI for one, hope it works as planned. Carbon fiber will make it lighter. No. Carbon fiber makes it possible at all.
I for one, hope it works as planned. Carbon fiber will make it lighter.
Quote from: spacenutAs mentioned SpaceX has landing covered, and engine reuse covered, and very well made engines. For the booster stage.Remember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage.
As mentioned SpaceX has landing covered, and engine reuse covered, and very well made engines.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 05/15/2018 03:38 pmRemember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever.Not sure what made you think that. They want to launch the full stack out of a cradle on the launch pad, then the booster returns, running on fumes, and lands in the cradle, already in position for refueling. The S2/spacecraft will land on its landing legs nearby and be hoisted into position atop the booster by a crane.
Quote from: envy887 on 05/15/2018 11:48 pmNew Glenn will be fully reusable eventually. Probably sooner if BFR succeeds.Where do you get that from?It seems more likely to me that Blue has a design for a subsequent vehicle with that goal.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 05/15/2018 03:38 pmQuote from: spacenut on 05/15/2018 12:47 pmAs mentioned SpaceX has landing covered, and engine reuse covered, and very well made engines. For the booster stage.Remember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever. No, that is most certainly not what they want.
Quote from: spacenut on 05/15/2018 12:47 pmAs mentioned SpaceX has landing covered, and engine reuse covered, and very well made engines. For the booster stage.Remember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 05/15/2018 03:38 pmRemember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever. Wait, what? Where are you getting this from? That's absurd.
Watch Musk's presentation again. 1 Mars launch = 1 BFS in orbit + 4 BFS tanker launches. That's take off, rendezvous with Mars BFS, propellant on load, RTLS and reload.For that launch rate you need a lot of boosters and your tanker clocks up a lot of launches. It is also one of Musks stated goals to eliminate landing legs on the US (I presume on the tanker only). Not surprising as the tanker has to be 30 tonnes lighter to make the propellant load numbers to refuel a BFS in LEO.
Quote from: TomH on 05/16/2018 01:27 amQuote from: john smith 19 on 05/15/2018 03:38 pmRemember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage. That's never been done anywhere ever.Not sure what made you think that. They want to launch the full stack out of a cradle on the launch pad, then the booster returns, running on fumes, and lands in the cradle, already in position for refueling. The S2/spacecraft will land on its landing legs nearby and be hoisted into position atop the booster by a crane.Just to be clear that profile takes a pretty substantial hit on booster payload and RTLS for the US needs either Shuttle size cross range or you'll have to wait till it's orbital plane rotates back over the launch site again. I'd say if SX want to launch BFS to Mars quickly those wings are going to need to get an awful lot bigger. I'll note I had thought SX could get away with a shot at 2022 if they didn't do that much TPS development, as the Mars BFS's only had to "go up" in Earths atmosphere once and come down in Mars atmosphere once. But unless you're prepared to launch multiple BFS's in expendable mode to load up the BFS in LEO you have to get orbital grade TPS within the mass target.
Actually IIRC the real mission ending event was when the APU's ran out of MMH and (I did not know this) they had to be running (at idle) continuously
The Space Shuttle APUs provided hydraulic pressure. The Space Shuttle had three redundant APUs, powered by hydrazine fuel. They were only powered up for ascent, re-entry, and landing. During ascent, the APUs provided hydraulic power for gimballing of the Shuttle's three engines and control of their large valves, and for movement of the control surfaces. During landing, they moved the control surfaces, lowered the wheels, and powered the brakes and nose-wheel steering. Landing could be accomplished with only one APU working.[14] In the early years of the Shuttle there were problems with APU reliability, with malfunctions on three of the first nine Shuttle missions.[Note 2]
Watch Musk's presentation again.
The fact Musk talked about some new TPS when discussing the Block 5 F9 suggests there are issues with PICAX in high frequency F9 usage already.
Remember they want to land the US on a fully loaded booster stage.
It is also one of Musks stated goals to eliminate landing legs on the US (I presume on the tanker only).
5) There are no company representative statements about planning to use legless Spaceships.
Quote from: Hominans Kosmos on 05/16/2018 02:55 pm5) There are no company representative statements about planning to use legless Spaceships.I thought they had plans to land the BFS in a cradle without legs?
Blue said that the NG upper stage was, and I quote, "initially expendable". That strongly implies that they will try to recover and reuse it eventually.