Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6  (Read 720927 times)

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #900 on: 01/13/2018 09:32 am »
They may still launch F9/FH from Boca Chica, which would help free up 39a for BFR.

I will believe this when I see a crew access tower rising at LC-40.
Good point.  Hadn't thought of that.

Could they somehow move the crew tower from 39a to 40?  If not, that builds a stronger case for Boca Chica going straight to BFR.

Online M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #901 on: 01/13/2018 09:54 am »
Are there practical reasons why LC39A should even be in consideration for BFR missions, or is it mostly for sentimental reasons that people try and argue for LC39A as a BFR launchpad?

Surely now that LC39A has been configured for F9 and FH, with LC40 as F9 backup, it makes sense to leave it as is and build your BFR launch infrastructure from scratch at a dedicated new site.

Why waste money on configuring a fourth site for Falcon family launches when you already have facilities that can do that? Just make Boca Chica your dedicated BFR launch site and be done with it.

Unless I'm missing something important, (which I probably am).

Offline nacnud

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #902 on: 01/13/2018 10:08 am »
A few pics of the fence damage.

For anybody who has ever lived close to a sea coast that fence would look ridiculous, I'd hazard to say. You can't just hope to block the wind like that. They must have contracted the job out to a descendant of King Canute...

Quick nit, Canute used the tide to prove the limits of his power when compared to that of the elements, not the other way around.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #903 on: 01/13/2018 10:29 am »
Are there practical reasons why LC39A should even be in consideration for BFR missions, or is it mostly for sentimental reasons that people try and argue for LC39A as a BFR launchpad?

It depends on whether NASA wants to get involved with BFR.  If so, NASA would probably want it to launch from Florida, so Boca Chica would need to launch F9/FH to keep things going while they work on 39a.

On the other hand, if SpaceX plans to launch BFR from a fixed pad 5-10 miles offshore, like Elon showed at IAC 2017, then they could do that in Florida, which mean 39a can still launch F9/FH.  In this scenario, work at Boca Chica may slow down significantly.

Alternatively, they could test BFS at Boca Chica very soon, and use this as a means to get NASA interested.  Maybe this is what Gwynne's statement on Thursday was alluding to.

There's just so much we don't know at this point.  Anything is possible.

The only thing I'm sure about: SpaceX will have a private launch site at Boca Chica, one way or another.

« Last Edit: 01/13/2018 11:12 am by Dave G »

Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #904 on: 01/13/2018 12:36 pm »
They may still launch F9/FH from Boca Chica, which would help free up 39a for BFR.

I will believe this when I see a crew access tower rising at LC-40.
Good point.  Hadn't thought of that.

Could they somehow move the crew tower from 39a to 40?  If not, that builds a stronger case for Boca Chica going straight to BFR.

It should not be too hard, build a new tower and move the Crew Access Arm.

Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #905 on: 01/13/2018 01:17 pm »
The need to build structural test stands for BFR and BFS somewhere and well ahead of any launch.

BFS could possibly be launched from a flat pad with minimal support, that is after all the intention for Mars and the Moon.

So Boca Chica timeline could be:

late 2018 - 2019: hangers + control center built.
end 2018: structural test stand ready.
2019: structural test of BFS followed by BFR
late 2019 and through 2020: BFS test launches from flat pad (which will later become the landing pad)
2019-2020: launch pad and payload processing buildings built
NET end 2020: first launch of BFR from completed pad



Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #906 on: 01/13/2018 02:29 pm »
They need to build structural test stands for BFR and BFS somewhere and well ahead of any launch.

I suspect the test stand will be at Michaud.

Or they could just test fire BFR at the launch pad.

The whole area around the Boca Chica is environmentally protected wetlands located right next to a public beach.  They can't just build a huge test stand wherever they want.

Also remember that BFR is designed to be reused hundreds of times, so the need for a test stand will be minimal.

Offline matthewkantar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #907 on: 01/13/2018 04:04 pm »
Why would the test stand be at Michaud? They can run the envisioned raptor in Texas.

Offline IanThePineapple

Wait, has it been confirmed that only BFR is launching from Boca Chica? Must have missed that memo

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #909 on: 01/13/2018 04:21 pm »
Why would the test stand be at Michaud? They can run the envisioned raptor in Texas.

Yes, they can test a single Raptor engine in McGregor, but they cant' test 31 Raptor engines together.  The BFR booster is too big for road transport.  And even if they could get it there, the test stand at McGregor isn't rated for that much thrust.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #910 on: 01/13/2018 04:22 pm »
Wait, has it been confirmed that only BFR is launching from Boca Chica? Must have missed that memo
Not confirmed, but somewhat implied from Gwynne's statement on Thursday.

Offline billh

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #911 on: 01/13/2018 05:24 pm »
What is surprising is Gwynne's announcement yesterday:
Quote from: Houston Chronicle, January 11, 2018
SpaceX has a rocket engine testing facility in McGregor and is building a launch site in Boca Chica, said Gwynne Shotwell, president and chief operating officer of SpaceX. The latter project, she said, will be ready late this year or early next year for early vehicle testing. SpaceX will then continue working toward making it a launch site.

If they're still planning to launch Falcon 9 from Boca Chica, why would that require "early vehicle testing"?  Falcon 9 is flight proven. And if she meant early pad testing with a vehicle, then why does she imply it will take some time after that for them to "continue working toward making it a launch site"?

In other words, Gwynne's announcement yesterday could be interpreted as Boca Chica going straight to BFR.

That would be cool if true. But I'd like to see the actual quote, not just a reporter's paraphrase, before I would read too much into the words "early vehicle testing".

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #912 on: 01/13/2018 05:33 pm »
What is surprising is Gwynne's announcement yesterday:
Quote from: Houston Chronicle, January 11, 2018
SpaceX has a rocket engine testing facility in McGregor and is building a launch site in Boca Chica, said Gwynne Shotwell, president and chief operating officer of SpaceX. The latter project, she said, will be ready late this year or early next year for early vehicle testing. SpaceX will then continue working toward making it a launch site.

If they're still planning to launch Falcon 9 from Boca Chica, why would that require "early vehicle testing"?  Falcon 9 is flight proven. And if she meant early pad testing with a vehicle, then why does she imply it will take some time after that for them to "continue working toward making it a launch site"?

In other words, Gwynne's announcement yesterday could be interpreted as Boca Chica going straight to BFR.

That would be cool if true. But I'd like to see the actual quote, not just a reporter's paraphrase, before I would read too much into the words "early vehicle testing".
Agreed.

As I said before, this is not a smoking gun.  They may still launch F9/FH from Boca Chica, which would help free up 39a for BFR.

The only thing I'm sure about: SpaceX will have a private launch site at Boca Chica, one way or another.

Offline matthewkantar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #913 on: 01/13/2018 06:22 pm »
Why would the test stand be at Michaud? They can run the envisioned raptor in Texas.

Yes, they can test a single Raptor engine in McGregor, but they cant' test 31 Raptor engines together.  The BFR booster is too big for road transport.  And even if they could get it there, the test stand at McGregor isn't rated for that much thrust.

As far as I know, Michaud has no test stand capable of handling the thrust from BFR either. My guess is, they will test the individual engines at McGregor. The all up tests will be static fires at the launch pad followed by hops, and then leaps, and then bounds.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #914 on: 01/13/2018 06:28 pm »
As far as I know, Michaud has no test stand capable of handling the thrust from BFR either.
True, but they could build one.

My guess is, they will test the individual engines at McGregor. The all up tests will be static fires at the launch pad followed by hops, and then leaps, and then bounds.
Also possible, as I mentioned above.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #915 on: 01/13/2018 06:33 pm »
What is surprising is Gwynne's announcement yesterday:
Quote from: Houston Chronicle, January 11, 2018
SpaceX has a rocket engine testing facility in McGregor and is building a launch site in Boca Chica, said Gwynne Shotwell, president and chief operating officer of SpaceX. The latter project, she said, will be ready late this year or early next year for early vehicle testing. SpaceX will then continue working toward making it a launch site.

If they're still planning to launch Falcon 9 from Boca Chica, why would that require "early vehicle testing"?  Falcon 9 is flight proven. And if she meant early pad testing with a vehicle, then why does she imply it will take some time after that for them to "continue working toward making it a launch site"?

In other words, Gwynne's announcement yesterday could be interpreted as Boca Chica going straight to BFR.

Seems like an indication that they will do BFR launches from Boca Chica, and use the launch site as a testing site too. Especially if they don't feel they have to do full duration test fires of a complete BFR or BFS.

There is still the possibility that the launch site can handle Falcon 9/H too.
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #916 on: 01/13/2018 06:52 pm »
Are there practical reasons why LC39A should even be in consideration for BFR missions, or is it mostly for sentimental reasons that people try and argue for LC39A as a BFR launchpad?

Surely now that LC39A has been configured for F9 and FH, with LC40 as F9 backup, it makes sense to leave it as is and build your BFR launch infrastructure from scratch at a dedicated new site.

Why waste money on configuring a fourth site for Falcon family launches when you already have facilities that can do that? Just make Boca Chica your dedicated BFR launch site and be done with it.

Unless I'm missing something important, (which I probably am).

There will be multiple BFR launch sites.
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #917 on: 01/13/2018 07:12 pm »
Are there practical reasons why LC39A should even be in consideration for BFR missions, or is it mostly for sentimental reasons that people try and argue for LC39A as a BFR launchpad?

Surely now that LC39A has been configured for F9 and FH, with LC40 as F9 backup, it makes sense to leave it as is and build your BFR launch infrastructure from scratch at a dedicated new site.

Why waste money on configuring a fourth site for Falcon family launches when you already have facilities that can do that? Just make Boca Chica your dedicated BFR launch site and be done with it.

Unless I'm missing something important, (which I probably am).
Because Vandenberg is for high inclination launches that are mostly not interchangable with Florida pads, and there are things that could shut down both Florida pads since they're on the same range. There's also the issue of upgrades or repairs to one Florida pad, which would leave them with only one working pad for most launches.
 But mainly, Falcon launches at Boca Chica would be the only ones I could watch from a mile and a half away.
« Last Edit: 01/13/2018 07:18 pm by Nomadd »
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Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #918 on: 01/13/2018 07:24 pm »
There will be multiple BFR launch sites.

And Boca Chica will be one of them, sooner or later.  Gwynne made that pretty clear at Stanford.


Offline IanThePineapple

Are there practical reasons why LC39A should even be in consideration for BFR missions, or is it mostly for sentimental reasons that people try and argue for LC39A as a BFR launchpad?

Surely now that LC39A has been configured for F9 and FH, with LC40 as F9 backup, it makes sense to leave it as is and build your BFR launch infrastructure from scratch at a dedicated new site.

Why waste money on configuring a fourth site for Falcon family launches when you already have facilities that can do that? Just make Boca Chica your dedicated BFR launch site and be done with it.

Unless I'm missing something important, (which I probably am).
Because Vandenberg is for high inclination launches that are mostly not interchangable with Florida pads, and there are things that could shut down both Florida pads since they're on the same range. There's also the issue of upgrades or repairs to one Florida pad, which would leave them with only one working pad for most launches.
 But mainly, Falcon launches at Boca Chica would be the only ones I could watch from a mile and a half away.

Exactly, a one-month range closing isn't too terrible now, but once SpaceX starts going nuts with launches, they'll probably want a backup LEO/GTO launch site other than the Cape.

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