Author Topic: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings  (Read 5709 times)

Offline BrightLight

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #20 on: 01/07/2018 07:34 PM »


American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, The Opportunity in Commercial Approaches for Future NASA Deep Space Exploration Elements. by Edgar Zapataa, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Kennedy Space Center, FL, 32899.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20170008893 2018-01-07T04:37:58+00:00Z

Zapata has been evaluating public-private partnerships (PP) for NASA exploration, in this figure note the cost for Altair by standard sole-source vs. PPP - better than 1/3 the cost - this aligns well with what SpaceX did with Falcon.  Also, note the cost for a 40-ton payload to Mars surface - can that lander also go to the lunar surface, huge payload!

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #21 on: 01/07/2018 10:51 PM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #22 on: 01/08/2018 04:50 AM »
Staging from LLO reduces lander DV to about 1.8km/s one way but SLS an Orion can't support LLO operations.

Yes it can, provided EUS does Lunar orbit insertion (LOI). I'm not sure if EUS is being designed to last the three day Lunar transit though.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #23 on: 01/08/2018 05:18 AM »
The Orion propellant load is only about 9 tons. If they could increase that to about 13, it might have been able to insert itself into LLO. But I'm not sure of the specific impulse and delta-v for Orion :(
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Online TrevorMonty

Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #24 on: 01/08/2018 07:19 AM »
Staging from LLO reduces lander DV to about 1.8km/s one way but SLS an Orion can't support LLO operations.

Yes it can, provided EUS does Lunar orbit insertion (LOI). I'm not sure if EUS is being designed to last the three day Lunar transit though.
I deliberately left it at current SLS/Orion design, to may what ifs, eg  long life EUS.

Online Lar

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #25 on: 01/08/2018 03:37 PM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.
Powerpoints are great!

But an actual plan, with funding, that resulted in an actual lander? Even better.  Preferably commercial, as that's far cheaper.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #26 on: 01/08/2018 03:52 PM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.
Powerpoints are great!

But an actual plan, with funding, that resulted in an actual lander? Even better.  Preferably commercial, as that's far cheaper.
Plus a CRS or CC COTS like program can result in multiple providers competing for the anchor tenant NASA and other follow-on commercial/scientific customers. As with CC and CRS, NASA was able to get multiple providers developed through PPP for cheaper than for a single NASA government driven sole sourced design procurement.

Offline BrightLight

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #27 on: 01/08/2018 08:41 PM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.
Powerpoints are great!

But an actual plan, with funding, that resulted in an actual lander? Even better.  Preferably commercial, as that's far cheaper.
Plus a CRS or CC COTS like program can result in multiple providers competing for the anchor tenant NASA and other follow-on commercial/scientific customers. As with CC and CRS, NASA was able to get multiple providers developed through PPP for cheaper than for a single NASA government driven sole sourced design procurement.
That is the point that Zapata was making - that PPP will result in capability substantially less expensive than traditional sole-source contracts.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #28 on: 01/09/2018 12:25 AM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.
Powerpoints are great!

But an actual plan, with funding, that resulted in an actual lander? Even better.  Preferably commercial, as that's far cheaper.
Plus a CRS or CC COTS like program can result in multiple providers competing for the anchor tenant NASA and other follow-on commercial/scientific customers. As with CC and CRS, NASA was able to get multiple providers developed through PPP for cheaper than for a single NASA government driven sole sourced design procurement.

A long term Moon base/village and mining plan is needed into which the transport system slots.

A president that likes making deals and a Congress that wants to look good without spending any money are people NASA can negotiate with. They will have to be given draft high level plans.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA seeks industry help with lunar landings
« Reply #29 on: 01/09/2018 12:36 AM »
Over the next few months there are going to various official design reviews of the lunar landers. Hopefully these will produce some interesting pictures, power points and statistics.
Powerpoints are great!

But an actual plan, with funding, that resulted in an actual lander? Even better.  Preferably commercial, as that's far cheaper.

In April 2018 Astrobotic Technology have Milestone 7:Critical Design Review (CDR) of their Peregrine Lunar Lander. "A System CDR in accordance with the CDR definition."

It is a small lander but it need some payloads.

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