Author Topic: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations  (Read 121412 times)

Offline Lars-J

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #460 on: 02/13/2018 07:24 AM »
Will “fairing 2.0” be a part of the block 5, or phased in separately?

Online Eagandale4114

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #461 on: 02/17/2018 07:43 PM »
Will “fairing 2.0” be a part of the block 5, or phased in separately?

It looks like PAZ will be the first fairing 2.0 flight.

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/964937069901447168/

Quote
Team at Vandenberg is taking additional time to perform final checkouts of upgraded fairing. Payload and vehicle remain healthy. Due to mission requirements, now targeting February 21 launch of PAZ.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #462 on: 02/17/2018 08:46 PM »
Will “fairing 2.0” be a part of the block 5, or phased in separately?

It looks like PAZ will be the first fairing 2.0 flight.

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/964937069901447168/

Quote
Team at Vandenberg is taking additional time to perform final checkouts of upgraded fairing. Payload and vehicle remain healthy. Due to mission requirements, now targeting February 21 launch of PAZ.

It could mean that yes, or simply recovery upgrades to the existing fairing. We don't know yet.

Offline Urx

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #463 on: 02/18/2018 06:27 PM »
Could the following images be the first one of Block 5?
https://i.redd.it/snje9xc7ei801.jpg and https://i.redd.it/youjp8a8slg01.jpg
IIRC there was a comment that B5 would be immediately recognizable. To me, these cores no longer look completely round. It that what was meant by that comment?

Online IanThePineapple

Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #464 on: 02/18/2018 06:37 PM »
Could the following images be the first one of Block 5?
https://i.redd.it/snje9xc7ei801.jpg and https://i.redd.it/youjp8a8slg01.jpg
IIRC there was a comment that B5 would be immediately recognizable. To me, these cores no longer look completely round. It that what was meant by that comment?

The non-roundness is caused by the wrapping holders being a specific shape (along with the raceways on the core).

The booster that was pictured from a bridge IS a Block 5, I don't know about the one in front of the HIF.
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Offline hkultala

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #465 on: 02/18/2018 07:57 PM »
Could the following images be the first one of Block 5?
https://i.redd.it/snje9xc7ei801.jpg and https://i.redd.it/youjp8a8slg01.jpg
IIRC there was a comment that B5 would be immediately recognizable. To me, these cores no longer look completely round. It that what was meant by that comment?

No.

AFAIK the interstage of block 5 will be black. (probably just left unpainted, as carbon fiber as black natively).

Online IanThePineapple

Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #466 on: 02/18/2018 08:17 PM »
AFAIK the interstage of block 5 will be black. (probably just left unpainted, as carbon fiber as black natively).

The nice black/grey pattern of woven carbon fiber will look nice
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Offline niwax

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #467 on: 02/18/2018 09:23 PM »
AFAIK the interstage of block 5 will be black. (probably just left unpainted, as carbon fiber as black natively).

The nice black/grey pattern of woven carbon fiber will look nice

Are you sure of that? Carbon fiber is sensitive to UV light and starts to decompose and lose strength. On the other hand, it would be another cool in-your-face to other rocket manufacturers when the majority of rockets a typical person will see are reusable and obviously carbon fiber.
« Last Edit: 02/18/2018 09:25 PM by niwax »

Online wannamoonbase

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #468 on: 02/18/2018 10:04 PM »
AFAIK the interstage of block 5 will be black. (probably just left unpainted, as carbon fiber as black natively).

The nice black/grey pattern of woven carbon fiber will look nice

Are you sure of that? Carbon fiber is sensitive to UV light and starts to decompose and lose strength. On the other hand, it would be another cool in-your-face to other rocket manufacturers when the majority of rockets a typical person will see are reusable and obviously carbon fiber.

UV does like degrading carbon bonds.  However, it's not like these vehicles stay outside 24/7. 

Could save a few ounces of paint (maybe a pound or two).

Maybe it has a purpose, maybe its just a way of visually demonstrating that it's a new vehicle. 
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Offline niwax

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #469 on: 02/18/2018 10:11 PM »
AFAIK the interstage of block 5 will be black. (probably just left unpainted, as carbon fiber as black natively).

The nice black/grey pattern of woven carbon fiber will look nice

Are you sure of that? Carbon fiber is sensitive to UV light and starts to decompose and lose strength. On the other hand, it would be another cool in-your-face to other rocket manufacturers when the majority of rockets a typical person will see are reusable and obviously carbon fiber.

UV does like degrading carbon bonds.  However, it's not like these vehicles stay outside 24/7. 

They penetrate the ozone layer for a heavy dose of UV and they do stand on the launch pad or next to it for days. One study I saw found 29% performance degradation after just 1000h of normal irradiation. Considering 10 flights between refurbishments that is not a lot and I don't think replacing the carbon fiber components is in scope for refurbishment anyways.
« Last Edit: 02/18/2018 10:22 PM by niwax »

Online speedevil

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #470 on: 02/18/2018 10:19 PM »
They penetrate the ozone layer for a heavy dose of UV and they do stand on the launch pad or next to it for days. One study I saw found 29% performance degradation after just 1000h of normal irradiation. Considering 10 flights between refurbishments that is not a lot and I don't think replacing the carbon fiber components counts is in scope for refurbishment anyways.

Maybe it's all one plan!
Perhaps soot absorbs UV really well.

Offline Testraindrop

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #471 on: 02/18/2018 10:21 PM »
Maybe they will put some clear coat on the CF, like car manufacturers do...

Offline Stan-1967

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #472 on: 02/18/2018 11:19 PM »
Could the following images be the first one of Block 5?
https://i.redd.it/snje9xc7ei801.jpg and https://i.redd.it/youjp8a8slg01.jpg
IIRC there was a comment that B5 would be immediately recognizable. To me, these cores no longer look completely round. It that what was meant by that comment?

Making the  Block 5 core into an octagon that still is only 3.7 m high & maintains road-transportability would give it more internal volume than a 3.7m diameter cylinder by 5.4%.  Not saying it's a good idea, just saying that the current F9 core supposedly is limited to 3.7m by transportation considerations.  An octagon with a diameter of 4m can be stacked so that it is only 3.7 meters in height, & would still fit under transportation constraints.

Offline rpapo

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #473 on: 02/18/2018 11:25 PM »
Could the following images be the first one of Block 5?
https://i.redd.it/snje9xc7ei801.jpg and https://i.redd.it/youjp8a8slg01.jpg
IIRC there was a comment that B5 would be immediately recognizable. To me, these cores no longer look completely round. It that what was meant by that comment?

Making the  Block 5 core into an octagon that still is only 3.7 m high & maintains road-transportability would give it more internal volume than a 3.7m diameter cylinder by 5.4%.  Not saying it's a good idea, just saying that the current F9 core supposedly is limited to 3.7m by transportation considerations.  An octagon with a diameter of 4m can be stacked so that it is only 3.7 meters in height, & would still fit under transportation constraints.
Unfortunately, it would not have the same strength as a pressurized cylinder.
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Offline Lars-J

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #474 on: 02/19/2018 04:29 AM »
Maybe they will put some clear coat on the CF, like car manufacturers do...

Right. There's a reason why most metal on rockets is painted, and it's not for adding strength - mostly to protect against the elements.

Offline lrk

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #475 on: 02/19/2018 06:15 PM »
I read somewhere on the forum that all Block 5 boosters will include the side-booster attachment hardware on the octaweb.  I thought that the major reason for switching to bolted octawebs was to make this easily configurable?  Can somebody comment on this? 

Offline rpapo

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #476 on: 02/19/2018 06:18 PM »
I read somewhere on the forum that all Block 5 boosters will include the side-booster attachment hardware on the octaweb.  I thought that the major reason for switching to bolted octawebs was to make this easily configurable?  Can somebody comment on this?
And here I thought/assumed that the transition from welded to bolted octaweb was simply a matter of making the whole thing more serviceable.
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Offline Semmel

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #477 on: 02/19/2018 06:20 PM »
I read somewhere on the forum that all Block 5 boosters will include the side-booster attachment hardware on the octaweb.  I thought that the major reason for switching to bolted octawebs was to make this easily configurable?  Can somebody comment on this?

Well the answer is right there (in my naive view as a software engineer). Since the Octoweb is bolted, not welded, the side-booster attachment hardware could just be bolted on. So not the actual attachment hardware needs to be there, just the holes in the octoweb where it is bolted on if it needs to be there. If they make the hard points accessible without deconstructing the whole thing, this should be possible in a day or two.

Offline lrk

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #478 on: 02/19/2018 11:21 PM »
I read somewhere on the forum that all Block 5 boosters will include the side-booster attachment hardware on the octaweb.  I thought that the major reason for switching to bolted octawebs was to make this easily configurable?  Can somebody comment on this?

Well the answer is right there (in my naive view as a software engineer). Since the Octoweb is bolted, not welded, the side-booster attachment hardware could just be bolted on. So not the actual attachment hardware needs to be there, just the holes in the octoweb where it is bolted on if it needs to be there. If they make the hard points accessible without deconstructing the whole thing, this should be possible in a day or two.

What I meant was that I read that all cores would have the hard points attached, at all times.  Why would they still have switched to (heavier) bolted octawebs if that is the case? 

Offline Kansan52

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates, Discussions, and Speculations
« Reply #479 on: 02/19/2018 11:27 PM »
The above post on increasing serviceability seems to be a good reason for the bolted, not welded, frame.

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