Author Topic: Technologies that will shape the future of aviation and space exploration  (Read 61666 times)

Offline Stormbringer

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Water bear derived anti radiation pills/ IV infusions?

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-protein-shields-human-dna-x-rays.html

the little critters resist radiation thanks to a protein they make.

 
Quote
A protein unique to a miniscule creature called a water bear, reputedly the most indestructible animal on Earth, protects human DNA from X-ray damage, stunned researchers reported Tuesday.

Human cells cultivated with the newly-discovered protein, dubbed "Dsup" for "damage suppressor", experienced half as much decay as normal cells when blasted with radiation.

"We were really surprised," said lead author Takuma Hashimoto, a biologist at the University of Tokyo who designed the experiments.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-09-protein-shields-human-dna-x-rays.html#jCp
« Last Edit: 09/25/2016 01:09 pm by Stormbringer »
When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

Offline tnphysics

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I think that aviation will be revolutionized by unmanned, small cargo haulers and later fully-automated passenger craft, following (though for different reasons) the spaceflight paradigm.  The big advantage is simple: no crew to pay equals lower expenses and higher flexibility.  It also eliminates pilot error.  On the other hand, it means that the automated control system must be perfect.

As far as spaceflight, not sure.

Offline Robotbeat

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Water bear derived anti radiation pills/ IV infusions?

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-protein-shields-human-dna-x-rays.html

the little critters resist radiation thanks to a protein they make.

 
Quote
A protein unique to a miniscule creature called a water bear, reputedly the most indestructible animal on Earth, protects human DNA from X-ray damage, stunned researchers reported Tuesday.

Human cells cultivated with the newly-discovered protein, dubbed "Dsup" for "damage suppressor", experienced half as much decay as normal cells when blasted with radiation.

"We were really surprised," said lead author Takuma Hashimoto, a biologist at the University of Tokyo who designed the experiments.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-09-protein-shields-human-dna-x-rays.html#jCp

Yeah, biotech will be transformative to spaceflight.

Radiation mitigation via a pill. Microgravity mitigation, too. Torpor. Even longer term hibernation. Life extension. Humans are actually pretty compact for the capability they bring, provided you could keep them on ice most of the trip and safe during the rest.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline sanman

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Yeah, biotech will be transformative to spaceflight.

Radiation mitigation via a pill. Microgravity mitigation, too. Torpor. Even longer term hibernation. Life extension. Humans are actually pretty compact for the capability they bring, provided you could keep them on ice most of the trip and safe during the rest.

I just wanted to quickly ask - if humans are kept "on ice" during space travel, whether in a slow-metabolic hibernation, or even literally frozen cryogenically - then how would it affect their radiation resistance/tolerance? Sure, your regular active metabolism can cause cancer to grow, but it also fights cancer and radiation damage - so would slowing it down or even stopping it completely then improve or impair your ability to withstand the damaging effects of radiation?

For instance, I could imagine some cryogenically frozen astronaut waking up after a century of space travel, only to find that he's accumulated a century's worth of radiation damage in space, so that his cells quickly start malfunctioning from the cumulative damage after he's thawed out.
Likewise, I can similarly imagine an astronaut waking up after a decade of metabolically-slowed hibernation in space, finding out that he's got lots of tumors growing within him, because his previously slowed immune system wasn't able to repair radiation damage or fight off cancerous growths fast enough.

What's going to prevent scenarios like that?
« Last Edit: 09/27/2016 06:44 am by sanman »

Offline Stormbringer

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I imagine you could put them on an I.V. with things like this and the cruciform veggie extract protein in it. There are other compounds that act in a similar pathway but on other aspects of cellular and genetic  damage. Tumeric is another one just now verified by science. If they all act on different aspects of the same problem then their effects would be cumulative.

The cruciform veggie concentrate (used by astronauts on the ISS now) in pill form more than doubles radiation tolerance/repair if i recall correctly. it is a hyper concentrated form of a chemical found in broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts and cabbage. You'd have to eat a swimming pool filled with these veggies to get the amount in one of the aforementioned pills.

It's not the tardigrade gene. It's the protein the gene manufactures.
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Offline Asteroza

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cockroach milk is apparently also an interesting food/protein source...

yes, you read that right...

http://journals.iucr.org/m/issues/2016/04/00/jt5013/

Offline Robotbeat

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Yeah, biotech will be transformative to spaceflight.

Radiation mitigation via a pill. Microgravity mitigation, too. Torpor. Even longer term hibernation. Life extension. Humans are actually pretty compact for the capability they bring, provided you could keep them on ice most of the trip and safe during the rest.

I just wanted to quickly ask - if humans are kept "on ice" during space travel, whether in a slow-metabolic hibernation, or even literally frozen cryogenically - then how would it affect their radiation resistance/tolerance? Sure, your regular active metabolism can cause cancer to grow, but it also fights cancer and radiation damage - so would slowing it down or even stopping it completely then improve or impair your ability to withstand the damaging effects of radiation?

For instance, I could imagine some cryogenically frozen astronaut waking up after a century of space travel, only to find that he's accumulated a century's worth of radiation damage in space, so that his cells quickly start malfunctioning from the cumulative damage after he's thawed out.
Likewise, I can similarly imagine an astronaut waking up after a decade of metabolically-slowed hibernation in space, finding out that he's got lots of tumors growing within him, because his previously slowed immune system wasn't able to repair radiation damage or fight off cancerous growths fast enough.

What's going to prevent scenarios like that?
yes, I think this is an important effect for very long-duration flight. I think that unless you have VERY thick shields, you'll have to wake people up (or at least speed up their metabolism) occasionally so their bodies can repair damage.

Might not be necessary for short flights, though. Keep someone sedated for high-gees of launch and entry, and if the flight is short enough (days, maybe weeks depending on tech), keep them sedated the whole time.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline FinalFrontier

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Composite structures. Before today I honestly can say it would never have occurred to me (especially after venture star) to try and build an entire vehicle out of carbon composites for the primary structures.

If it can be done in such a way that it works reliably and doesn't crack or otherwise fail, its going to be a very big deal in terms of mass reductions. And if you can build your launch vehicle reliably out of the stuff you can build things for surface habitation out of it too.


To expand on that, basically anything that drastically reduces the weight of things you need but still preforms all the same functions is trans-formative. The less mass you have the more stuff you can send.
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Offline CameronD

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Composite structures. Before today I honestly can say it would never have occurred to me (especially after venture star) to try and build an entire vehicle out of carbon composites for the primary structures.

Huh?  ??? You'll find composites used at least somewhere on any modern aeroplane you care to fly on - if not for the entire thing.

Composite structures are old tech now... very 20th century.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Katana

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Yeah, biotech will be transformative to spaceflight.

Radiation mitigation via a pill. Microgravity mitigation, too. Torpor. Even longer term hibernation. Life extension. Humans are actually pretty compact for the capability they bring, provided you could keep them on ice most of the trip and safe during the rest.

I just wanted to quickly ask - if humans are kept "on ice" during space travel, whether in a slow-metabolic hibernation, or even literally frozen cryogenically - then how would it affect their radiation resistance/tolerance? Sure, your regular active metabolism can cause cancer to grow, but it also fights cancer and radiation damage - so would slowing it down or even stopping it completely then improve or impair your ability to withstand the damaging effects of radiation?

For instance, I could imagine some cryogenically frozen astronaut waking up after a century of space travel, only to find that he's accumulated a century's worth of radiation damage in space, so that his cells quickly start malfunctioning from the cumulative damage after he's thawed out.
Likewise, I can similarly imagine an astronaut waking up after a decade of metabolically-slowed hibernation in space, finding out that he's got lots of tumors growing within him, because his previously slowed immune system wasn't able to repair radiation damage or fight off cancerous growths fast enough.

What's going to prevent scenarios like that?

A good question.
Have anybody done experiments on frozen cells in lab?

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Composite structures. Before today I honestly can say it would never have occurred to me (especially after venture star) to try and build an entire vehicle out of carbon composites for the primary structures.

Huh?  ??? You'll find composites used at least somewhere on any modern aeroplane you care to fly on - if not for the entire thing.

Composite structures are old tech now... very 20th century.
It is about large composite structures that can withstand relatively high pressures and cryogenic fuels.

Offline CameronD

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Composite structures. Before today I honestly can say it would never have occurred to me (especially after venture star) to try and build an entire vehicle out of carbon composites for the primary structures.

Huh?  ??? You'll find composites used at least somewhere on any modern aeroplane you care to fly on - if not for the entire thing.

Composite structures are old tech now... very 20th century.
It is about large composite structures that can withstand relatively high pressures and cryogenic fuels.

Do you mean COPV's?  ..or complete rockets like RocketLab's Electron? ..or maybe SS2??

ISTM they're all current technologies, developed over decades, finding their niche in commercial aerospace now.  Either way, for many reasons carbon composites aren't a replacement for metal structures in all cases, they're an addition to.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Stormbringer

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C14 Diamond Nuclear Batteries:

These things are low power but extreme^29th power longevity and endurance. I suppose you'd just put a number of them together to meet the requirements of whatever equipment was onboard. This would be ideal for probes to nearby stars.

If you are someone that thinks postage stamp sized interstellar probes are a real contender but this is not because of the low power...there is something wrong with your philosophy. In fact:

Quote
Unitam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
  :P

http://phys.org/news/2016-11-diamond-age-power-nuclear-batteries.html

Quote
Despite their low-power, relative to current battery technologies, the life-time of these diamond batteries could revolutionise the powering of devices over long timescales. Using carbon-14 the battery would take 5,730 years to reach 50 per cent power, which is about as long as human civilization has existed.

Professor Scott added: "We envision these batteries to be used in situations where it is not feasible to charge or replace conventional batteries. Obvious applications would be in low-power electrical devices where long life of the energy source is needed, such as pacemakers, satellites, high-altitude drones or even spacecraft.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-11-diamond-age-power-nuclear-batteries.html#jCp

« Last Edit: 11/28/2016 09:15 am by Stormbringer »
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Offline rocx

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I'm no believer in global warming
It doesn't depend on your belief. Temperature records are being set year after year. http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

And what you are calling an ice age is what most people would call 'winter'. That said, thermal energy storage is a promising technology that could reduce dependence on the fossil fuels that have been warming the climate. But it's not rocket science.
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline Stormbringer

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yeah about that. we were "recently" in an ice age. just entering an interglacial period. so yeah the globe will warm and it does not matter one darn what we humans do it will still warm and warm and warm until it cools and we enter another period of glaciation. no amount of paying people to pretend to plant trees or how we tax the stuffings out of people or corps, sign away national sovereignty to a bloated evil oppressive multinational organization or even if we switch our entire energy sector to wind solar geothermal and tidal power the planet will still go on warming. It has been warmer in the past it is cooler now and actually life on earth does better when it is warmer.
When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

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Well there are already cow suits...

Offline Robotbeat

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yeah about that. we were "recently" in an ice age. just entering an interglacial period. so yeah the globe will warm and it does not matter one darn what we humans do it will still warm and warm and warm until it cools and we enter another period of glaciation. no amount of paying people to pretend to plant trees or how we tax the stuffings out of people or corps, sign away national sovereignty to a bloated evil oppressive multinational organization or even if we switch our entire energy sector to wind solar geothermal and tidal power the planet will still go on warming. It has been warmer in the past it is cooler now and actually life on earth does better when it is warmer.
It most certainly does matter what humans do. Modifying the chemistry of the atmosphere doesn't happen without any consequence! And the fact that the climate changes and has changed in the past shouldn't be a "comfort" to us. Remember, just a few degrees is enough to put Boston under a ~mile of ice. https://xkcd.com/1732/

4 degrees C is enough to put like half of Florida underwater. It's already happening.

It's also really weird to be concerned with a "bloated evil oppressive multinational corporation" when most of the largest corporations in the world are, in fact, fossil fuel companies ( here's a list compiled from various sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue ). How much spin can literally trillions of petro dollars buy you?

An interesting point is that never in the history of our species have we experienced 400ppm CO2 levels. 180-300ppm, yes. But our current level is unprecedented in human existence. Interestingly, we're also spending a lot more time indoors, where CO2 levels are even higher. If we do nothing, we'll probably see north of 900ppm by the end of this century. You can start to notice it getting stuffy at around 600ppm. Start seeing measureable reduction in mental speed for some tasks at around 900-1000ppm. It won't hurt you, but it will slow you down slightly. Basically, the entire globe will be a bit like a stuffy room (and actual rooms will be worse, of course). And I can guarantee you that the heirs of those fossil fuel fortunes who made the entire world stuffy will own CO2 scrubbing devices for their homes. Plants will be fine (might even like it) until we get to 2000ppm (at which point it starts being toxic to them, too... and hey, I wouldn't put it past us to try), rich folk will be fine, but the rest of us will all be just a little bit slower. Source: http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/advpub/2015/10/ehp.1510037.acco.pdf

Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robotbeat

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So, interesting that by the end of the century, life support systems like we use on ISS may become in demand on Earth for rich folk who want that "peak performance only possible with a pre-industrial atmosphere..."

That would be a case of space exploration technology shaping our future on Earth.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Stormbringer

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Well there are already cow suits...
Fake or not- That's funny.

But I'd say its just like the govt to make a working space suit for a cow (tongue in cheek) before they make a really good one for humans :)
When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

Offline Stormbringer

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When antigravity is outlawed only outlaws will have antigravity.

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