Poll

Who's winning and why?

USA
Russia
Don't know

Author Topic: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?  (Read 48666 times)

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #40 on: 06/26/2013 10:55 pm »

Might I suggest that a more precise version of that would be

Quote
Pretty much all three commercial crew vehicles, if successfully developed and put into operation will be much more capable than Shenzhou and some would be at least comparable to the entirely notional next generation Russian crew vehicle.



Commercial crew vehicles will be great and cheaper probably, but sometimes people forget that they are still a few years out and have yet to be demonstrated.
Clayton Birchenough

Offline robertross

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #41 on: 06/26/2013 11:16 pm »
Russia.

edit to add: Maybe in 10 years when the next commercial players are rolling along and NASA has SLS flying, things will change in America's favour.
« Last Edit: 06/26/2013 11:36 pm by robertross »

Offline Falcon H

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #42 on: 06/26/2013 11:18 pm »
Who's the current leading nation in space, well it depends on how you look at it, nobody has really caught up with the US yet, I mean we have accomplished a lot, also there is Space-X and other private companies there is a lot of innovation going on there. In Russia, they are the only nation besides china with human spaceflight capability.  And we must consider that neither the US or Russia has developed and flown a new manned spacecraft in decades, while China flew Shenzhou in 2003 (maybe this does not count because this is just a soyuz clone.) Plus, the US and Russia together (along with other countries) have built the ISS, a space station the size of a football field.
 
« Last Edit: 06/26/2013 11:41 pm by Falcon H »

Offline drpepper

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #43 on: 06/26/2013 11:58 pm »
US

I don't think anyone would deny that the US took a big hit with the retirement of the shuttle. However, space is much more than HSF and personally unmanned missions, ISS leadership, Orion/SLS and commercial development all combine to outweigh the current HSF gap.

Offline spectre9

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #44 on: 06/27/2013 12:27 am »
Russia might launch more people and more weight of cargo per year but can they use that ability to go to The Moon?

No? But they're leading aren't they?  ::)

False argument in favor of Russia in my opinion.

The Moon landings were real and are the high benchmark. The records books show this and Russia has not caught up or overtaken until they have accomplished the same feat.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #45 on: 06/27/2013 12:30 am »
The high water mark of pointless government spending on space stunts. Sure.

The battle changed after Apollo to economically useful activities.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline rcoppola

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #46 on: 06/27/2013 12:35 am »
The high water mark of pointless government spending on space stunts. Sure.

The battle changed after Apollo to economically useful activities.
Where you cynically see space stunts, others see bravery, dedication, ingenuity, teamwork, genius, inspiration.
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Offline QuantumG

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #47 on: 06/27/2013 12:37 am »
The high water mark of pointless government spending on space stunts. Sure.

The battle changed after Apollo to economically useful activities.
Where you cynically see space stunts, others see bravery, dedication, ingenuity, teamwork, genius, inspiration.

I see both.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline rcoppola

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #48 on: 06/27/2013 12:43 am »
The high water mark of pointless government spending on space stunts. Sure.

The battle changed after Apollo to economically useful activities.
Where you cynically see space stunts, others see bravery, dedication, ingenuity, teamwork, genius, inspiration.

I see both.
Fair enough.
Sail the oceans of space and set foot upon new lands!
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #49 on: 06/27/2013 02:05 am »
The US is winning, but has had a series of poor leadership and a Congress that's made it almost impossible to do anything about.

NASA needs to do cool stuff again.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline edkyle99

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #50 on: 06/27/2013 04:33 am »
Russia might launch more people and more weight of cargo per year but can they use that ability to go to The Moon?

No? But they're leading aren't they?  ::)

False argument in favor of Russia in my opinion.

The Moon landings were real and are the high benchmark. The records books show this and Russia has not caught up or overtaken until they have accomplished the same feat.
The USSR beat the US to solar orbit and to the Moon (crashing, soft-landing, and orbiting) with Luna.  Later Lunas returned samples from the Moon (the first-ever robotic sample return missions) and landed Lunokhod rovers that traveled miles across its surface.  As for "what have you done lately", Luna 24 performed the most recent soft-landing on the moon, four years after Cernan's last step.

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Offline spectre9

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #51 on: 06/27/2013 05:47 am »
Thanks Ed. How about overall weight landed on the moon and the biggest lander?

Apollo 16 weighed 16,660kg according to a quick look on wiki.

How about amount of Lunar rocks/soil samples returned to Earth?




Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #52 on: 06/27/2013 06:17 am »
If Britain ever plucks up the courage to greenlight Skylon,

Britain will vault to the top if they decide to greenlight Skylon *and* Skylon can actually be made to work.  If Skylon can't actually be made to work, sinking enormous sums into it won't help anyone get ahead in space.

and Virgin Galactic ushers in the new era of space tourism as it hopes to, then Europe will be up there with the three superpowers in terms of overall space activity (though not all of it will be scientific or exploratory).

It's hard to say whether Virgin Galactic should count toward Europe or the U.S.  A British company finances it, but the technology is all developed in the U.S.  If that counts as a win for Europe over the U.S., then a good share of the manned Soyuz launches count for the U.S., and many of the Russian satellite launches count for the U.S. or Europe.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #53 on: 06/27/2013 06:25 am »
I think the only ways in which Russia or China could be considered to be ahead would be in terms of execution -- setting a path and continuing to follow it year after year.

In terms of innovation and flexibility, the U.S. is clearly far ahead.  Nobody else in the world is trying multiple different risky development programs and letting them compete to see what works.  In the long run, innovation tends to beat execution sooner or later.

Offline brad2007a

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #54 on: 06/27/2013 10:03 am »
I voted "Don't Know" only because China wasn't an option. I agree with Cozmicray - NASA is quite FUBAR.
Democrats haven't been this mad at Republicans since the Republicans took away their slaves..

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #55 on: 06/27/2013 10:28 am »
Russia might launch more people and more weight of cargo per year but can they use that ability to go to The Moon?

No? But they're leading aren't they?  ::)

False argument in favor of Russia in my opinion.

The Moon landings were real and are the high benchmark. The records books show this and Russia has not caught up or overtaken until they have accomplished the same feat.

Okay, so why aren't NASA landing on the Moon now? Because they mothballed the capability and have never had the organisational ability and funding to restore it.  That isn't to say the Russians are ahead in that area because they're not but six landings half a century ago does not in any way create a benchmark.  Purely in terms of HSF, Russia has managed a series of firsts and records that America has only recently started trying to match and only because the means to do so is the only HSF capability they have left.

Now, I voted for the US because the US is way ahead on robotic exploration and space observatories.  But, as I posted before, ESA and Roscosmos are in a tussle for second place and China is coming up fast to join them.  If NASA continues in free drift, isn't able to get any momentum going on SLS to do anything than a few missions out to the EML points and isn't able to seriously fund future robotic exploration, then it will inevitably be overtaken by the middle of the century.  The question will be whether it is overtaken by a state actor or by commercially/privately-funded efforts.
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Offline Satori

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #56 on: 06/27/2013 11:30 am »
China isn't in the list, so "Don't Know".

Offline SalemHanna

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #57 on: 06/27/2013 11:46 am »
Russia might launch more people and more weight of cargo per year but can they use that ability to go to The Moon?

No? But they're leading aren't they?  ::)

False argument in favor of Russia in my opinion.

The Moon landings were real and are the high benchmark. The records books show this and Russia has not caught up or overtaken until they have accomplished the same feat.

Setting the existing watermark is not the same thing as currently leading. It's like saying Britain and Italy are leading nations over China because they once had empires that spanned every known continent, whereas China (for now) does not.

When America one day journeys beyond the Moon to Mars, it will be as part of an international effort and I suspect the Russians will be very equal partners in that.
« Last Edit: 06/27/2013 11:48 am by SalemHanna »
Apollo, Soyuz, Shuttle...SKYLON.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #58 on: 06/27/2013 12:50 pm »
The US spends far more than anyone else, by a huge margin.

Unfortunately, the gap in what actually is done is smaller. But that's partly because of the enormous scope of the current activities of NASA.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: POLL: Who's the current leading nation in space?
« Reply #59 on: 06/27/2013 12:56 pm »
USA naturally.  All that China can do is launch astros to their own space station.  Big deal.  That is so been there and done that.

Who else has landed any on Mars recently?

You raise a good point.  I have no idea why we keep going back there, and doing the same stuff, rover and rover again.  It's completely against Presidential policy.

Besides, I still voted for the US, which is what you're supposed to do, regardless of our national policies for the future, budget and administration instabilities, current capabilities, or ill conceived mission concepts.

I suppose polls like this allow people to chant "USA, USA" or "Boston Strong", or whatever other "patriotic" slogans that are required by the politically correct overlords.  The noise of the chanting distracts from the general inadequacies of NASA's implementation of HSF, for which it is being rewarded by Congress with lowered funding.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

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