Author Topic: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates  (Read 285535 times)

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #40 on: 11/09/2010 06:04 pm »
Any update on whether the foam crack occurred during tanking or when it was draining (and warming up)?  It is a scary thought to have launched with such a condition.  I was thinking if the bond was weak to begin with.  Just thankful it was caught when you want it to be, BEFORE A LAUNCH!  Great work.

Well, considering they now do adhesion pull tests in the intertank region, a procedure they nailed down quite well due to issues seen with the placement staging, they knew the foam was good to go.


Actually, if I'm reading the L2 presentation on this correctly, this region of the tank is out of reach by personnel during bond adhesion testing. So, no, the pull tests would not have verified anything on this particular region of the tank.

No, that was for 'current' access concerns. The tank would have bond adhesion tests performed around the full circumference, if required, but (I'd say, not sure the exact circumference covered) the ~180deg clocking on the orbiter side would be the most critical (plus a bit more obviously).

edit to add: bumped the relavent ET document on L2 for you

Copying this one quote across from L2 from AnalogMan: "The flange [where the cracks are] is about 3ft above the highest foam pull-test plug location."

That presentation on L2 about the crack generally talks about current access, but the slide I'm talking about is page 17 (and is, I believe, an image from inside the VAB).

However, I might also be misunderstanding "Bond Adhesion Testing." Is this the technical term for Plug-pull tests?

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #41 on: 11/09/2010 06:28 pm »
When/where is the Bond Adhesion check normally done?
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Off topic derail sorted out. Tried splitting up the thread and merging, but was near impossible, so deleted some of them.  Members should know better anyway. Keep missing out on launches in the launch viewing thread please. Don't give Chris a headache ;)
« Last Edit: 11/09/2010 07:09 pm by Chris Bergin »
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When/where is the Bond Adhesion check normally done?

At MAF and in the VAB, mainly. Some have been done at the pad before.
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Offline Gemini63

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #44 on: 11/09/2010 08:20 pm »
New thread for Discovery's troubleshooting, leading with a large GUCP article that I've collated over the past two days.

Covers STS-119 and STS-127's GUCP scrubs, internal notes at the time and investigation and PRCB content from L2 presentations and coverage. It's a long one, but I think it will be the most comphensive out there.

STS-133 GUCP root cause to benefit from STS-119/127 investigation:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/11/sts-133-gucp-benefit-sts-119127-investigation/


-----
L2 Members:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags&tags=GUCP

Either the tolerances are really tight or it was overlooked-I don't get how it (GUCP) could be mis-aligned

Offline rdale

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #45 on: 11/09/2010 08:24 pm »
What evidence is there that the GUCP was overlooked?
« Last Edit: 11/09/2010 08:24 pm by rdale »

Offline emerrill

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #46 on: 11/09/2010 09:08 pm »

Either the tolerances are really tight or it was overlooked-I don't get how it (GUCP) could be mis-aligned

Or it shifted at some point during tanking or other ops. There is no reason currently (that I know of) to think it was misaligned when it was assembled at the pad.

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Also, I think there's all manner of thermal conditions going on. I remember they put strain gauges on the feet of the GUCP dueing the STS-127 tanking test to get data on that.
« Last Edit: 11/09/2010 09:26 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline catdlr

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« Last Edit: 11/09/2010 10:14 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #49 on: 11/09/2010 09:48 pm »
Also, I think there's all manner of thermal conditions going on. I remember they put strain gauges on the feet of the GUCP dueing the STS-127 tanking test to get data on that.
Half-correct. They did install strain gages on the GUCP structure but they were removed prior to the tanking test.
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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #50 on: 11/09/2010 11:27 pm »
current view of work going on via the above link.
« Last Edit: 11/10/2010 12:06 am by Chris Bergin »
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Offline stockman

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #51 on: 11/10/2010 01:32 am »
« Last Edit: 11/10/2010 01:46 am by stockman »
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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #52 on: 11/10/2010 02:19 am »
another piece removed
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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #53 on: 11/10/2010 02:28 am »
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They'll likely have the seal out by the morning. Thanks Roger!
« Last Edit: 11/10/2010 02:43 am by Chris Bergin »
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Offline robertross

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #55 on: 11/10/2010 02:45 am »

edit to add: bumped the relavent ET document on L2 for you

Copying this one quote across from L2 from AnalogMan: "The flange [where the cracks are] is about 3ft above the highest foam pull-test plug location."

That presentation on L2 about the crack generally talks about current access, but the slide I'm talking about is page 17 (and is, I believe, an image from inside the VAB).

However, I might also be misunderstanding "Bond Adhesion Testing." Is this the technical term for Plug-pull tests?

Yeah, I was a little quick on the draw for that, apologies. AnalogMan is correct, the location of the crack is above the pull tests normally done now. And YES, bond adhesion test is the 'pull-test', to ensure the foam is adhering to the substrate of the tank. There is also a separate cohesion test (which seems to be how well the foam holds together), and (**speculation**)I'm wondering IF (big IF) the crack doesn't go all the way to the substrate material, and that this is in fact what we are seeing: cohesive failure. Like if you ever worked with expandable foam, and tried to pull a chunk off after it cured. And adhesive failure would typically pull away from the concrete or wood due to contaminants/moisture, whereas the cohesive failure would be an improperly formulated or cured mixture.

(sorry for the late post to this: was at the Australian Pink Floyd Show)  :)

Offline FinalFrontier

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #56 on: 11/10/2010 03:04 am »
They'll likely have the seal out by the morning. Thanks Roger!

Perhaps then we can  get a better idea of what happened.
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Yes, that's the idea ;)

Rather than putting on an article tonight (and I could have), I want to wait until the morning in case we have some initial updates, so as not to miss any potentially important updates from overnight.
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Offline GClark

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #58 on: 11/10/2010 07:20 am »
@robertross:  Priorities, after all...

@Chris Bergin:  Looking forward to that.  Your efforts are, as always, appreciated.

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Re: STS-133: Troubleshooting and Pad Flow Latest/Updates
« Reply #59 on: 11/10/2010 12:22 pm »
Yes, that's the idea ;)

Rather than putting on an article tonight (and I could have), I want to wait until the morning in case we have some initial updates, so as not to miss any potentially important updates from overnight.

Your article you have on-site right now is great Chris!!

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