Author Topic: XCOR and the Lynx rocket  (Read 488955 times)

Offline Craftyatom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
  • Software!
  • Arizona, USA
  • Liked: 378
  • Likes Given: 2115
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1260 on: 02/10/2018 03:37 pm »
Let's buy a Lynx!!!!
The real question is, whose front yard do we put it in?

If Chris's, how do we get it across the ocean?
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline mheney

  • The Next Man on the Moon
  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Silver Spring, MD
  • Liked: 378
  • Likes Given: 200
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1261 on: 02/10/2018 05:14 pm »
Let's buy a Lynx!!!!
The real question is, whose front yard do we put it in?

If Chris's, how do we get it across the ocean?

I suspect that there would be iTAR issues getting it to Chris.   I'd see if Jeff Greason wanted it ...

Offline Zond

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1262 on: 03/24/2018 12:37 pm »
Quote from: Ben Brockert
Anyone know Lyn Freeman? He appears to have bought XCOR for $1M.
https://twitter.com/wikkit/status/976969836344459264

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2595
  • Liked: 475
  • Likes Given: 1096
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1264 on: 03/24/2018 07:10 pm »
Interesting; I wonder if he is going to focus on the rocketplane side, or the engine side. An up-rated 4A3 seems like a good fit for his Build A Rocket kit: http://www.buildaplane.com/what-is-build-a-rocket/
I tried it at home

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9191
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 3047
  • Likes Given: 8291
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1265 on: 03/25/2018 06:47 pm »
Interesting; I wonder if he is going to focus on the rocketplane side, or the engine side. An up-rated 4A3 seems like a good fit for his Build A Rocket kit: http://www.buildaplane.com/what-is-build-a-rocket/
Great, why not both? Maybe I'll get to build my own ME-163 Komet that doesn't explode upon landing... ;D
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7002
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 7090
  • Likes Given: 2303
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1266 on: 04/20/2018 05:35 pm »
Quote
Bankrupt Spaceflight Company's Assets to Help Young Minds Soar
By Douglas Messier, Space.com Contributor | April 20, 2018 12:46pm ET

MOJAVE, Calif. Before it went bankrupt last year, XCOR Aerospace had ambitious plans to fly tourists to space with the company's fully reusable Lynx suborbital vehicle. But now, the company's assets will be used for a more down-to-Earth purpose: giving high school and college students hands-on experience with rockets and space technology.

A nonprofit organization called Build A Plane purchased XCOR's assets at auction for just under $1.1 million, according to court records.

https://www.space.com/40352-xcor-aerospace-lynx-space-plan-stem-education.html

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1267 on: 05/25/2018 12:54 am »
I don't know if anyone would find this interesting, but here is one of the few (maybe only?) public videos of the 5H25 hydrogen engine firing. It showed up briefly on the XCOR youtube channel before being taken down, but it was copied and uploaded by someone else before it was pulled.

I tried it at home

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7726
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 1253
  • Likes Given: 8596
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1268 on: 05/25/2018 06:59 am »
I don't know if anyone would find this interesting, but here is one of the few (maybe only?) public videos of the 5H25 hydrogen engine firing. It showed up briefly on the XCOR youtube channel before being taken down, but it was copied and uploaded by someone else before it was pulled.


Very clean burn. Expected more heat shimmer.
Is that Doug Jones on the audio?
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1269 on: 05/25/2018 11:22 am »
Very clean burn. Expected more heat shimmer.
Is that Doug Jones on the audio?
No, I don't think he was out there for this firing.
I tried it at home

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7726
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 1253
  • Likes Given: 8596
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1270 on: 05/25/2018 03:41 pm »
Very clean burn. Expected more heat shimmer.
Is that Doug Jones on the audio?
No, I don't think he was out there for this firing.
Thanks.

You're point about the possibilities of conformal LOX tanks being viable (on another thread) if the ullage pressure was low enough was very interesting. I don't think I've seen it suggested elsewhere. REL are planning a flight test vehicle for their air breathing SABRE engine that looks like a D-21 drone. The D21 used wing tanks but I can't figure out how they will do this with LH2.
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Gliderflyer

Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1271 on: 05/25/2018 10:22 pm »
You're point about the possibilities of conformal LOX tanks being viable (on another thread) if the ullage pressure was low enough was very interesting. I don't think I've seen it suggested elsewhere. REL are planning a flight test vehicle for their air breathing SABRE engine that looks like a D-21 drone. The D21 used wing tanks but I can't figure out how they will do this with LH2.
I was referring specifically to the kerosene tanks on Lynx and the X-Racer (as those are the only examples I know if in the rocket world), although I don't see why you couldn't make it work with LOX or LH2.
I tried it at home

Offline catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5787
  • Viewed launches since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 2284
  • Likes Given: 1643
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1272 on: 01/03/2019 07:22 am »
Bump..

Lost in space: They paid $100,000 to ride on Xcor's space plane. Now they want their money back

Los Angeles Times Business Article

Quote
The first sign of trouble was the ever-extended launch date.

One customer of space tourism firm Xcor Aerospace Inc. thought his flight would come in 2011. Nael Hamameh expected 2015 to be the year he would finally achieve his childhood dream of going to space, having paid Xcor $100,000 for a ticket.

But 2015 came and went. After hearing no word of progress, Hamameh asked for a refund. Xcor told him it would try to find someone else to buy his ticket by the end of 2017, but at the least, he would receive $35,000. Then, it all came crashing down in November 2017, when Xcor filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

The story of Xcor and its ticket holders 282 of them, as of the most recent count is a cautionary tale for the space tourism age.
Tony De La Rosa

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8770
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 5702
  • Likes Given: 1903
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1273 on: 01/03/2019 09:24 am »
Bump..

Lost in space: They paid $100,000 to ride on Xcor's space plane. Now they want their money back

Los Angeles Times Business Article

Quote
The first sign of trouble was the ever-extended launch date.

One customer of space tourism firm Xcor Aerospace Inc. thought his flight would come in 2011. Nael Hamameh expected 2015 to be the year he would finally achieve his childhood dream of going to space, having paid Xcor $100,000 for a ticket.

But 2015 came and went. After hearing no word of progress, Hamameh asked for a refund. Xcor told him it would try to find someone else to buy his ticket by the end of 2017, but at the least, he would receive $35,000. Then, it all came crashing down in November 2017, when Xcor filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

The story of Xcor and its ticket holders 282 of them, as of the most recent count is a cautionary tale for the space tourism age.

This is exactly why Blue didn't begin to sell tickets until its system was actually flying.

Offline russianhalo117

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4888
  • AR USA / Berlin, DE / Moscow, RF
  • Liked: 1318
  • Likes Given: 598
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1274 on: 01/03/2019 04:01 pm »
Bump..

Lost in space: They paid $100,000 to ride on Xcor's space plane. Now they want their money back

Los Angeles Times Business Article

Quote
The first sign of trouble was the ever-extended launch date.

One customer of space tourism firm Xcor Aerospace Inc. thought his flight would come in 2011. Nael Hamameh expected 2015 to be the year he would finally achieve his childhood dream of going to space, having paid Xcor $100,000 for a ticket.

But 2015 came and went. After hearing no word of progress, Hamameh asked for a refund. Xcor told him it would try to find someone else to buy his ticket by the end of 2017, but at the least, he would receive $35,000. Then, it all came crashing down in November 2017, when Xcor filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

The story of Xcor and its ticket holders 282 of them, as of the most recent count is a cautionary tale for the space tourism age.

This is exactly why Blue didn't begin to sell tickets until its system was actually flying.
When Blue came into the mix of ULA projects that is when the XCOR ULA engine project slowed down to a crawl and began hurting XCOR.

Offline Lars-J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4613
  • California
  • Liked: 4225
  • Likes Given: 2555
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1275 on: 01/03/2019 04:18 pm »
This is exactly why Blue didn't begin to sell tickets until its system was actually flying.
When Blue came into the mix of ULA projects that is when the XCOR ULA engine project slowed down to a crawl and began hurting XCOR.

Perhaps true but irrelevant. XCOR simply bit off more than they could chew. And it was a bad idea for them to sell tickets (directly or indirectly) to raise funds.
(Despite some on this forum - if I recall correctly - claiming at the time they did not sell tickets) :)

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28693
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 8753
  • Likes Given: 5689
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1276 on: 01/03/2019 09:10 pm »
This is exactly why Blue didn't begin to sell tickets until its system was actually flying.
When Blue came into the mix of ULA projects that is when the XCOR ULA engine project slowed down to a crawl and began hurting XCOR.

Perhaps true but irrelevant. XCOR simply bit off more than they could chew. And it was a bad idea for them to sell tickets (directly or indirectly) to raise funds.
(Despite some on this forum - if I recall correctly - claiming at the time they did not sell tickets) :)
Not irrelevant. The reason Blue was able to forgo selling tickets is also the reason they were able to swoop in and take the ULA business: they were hyper-capitalized. Bezos' billions crowded out XCOR's business and probably scared away investors from XCOR, as well.

The crappy thing is that Blue is barely even doing anything with it. They're very slow in transitioning from development to operations considering money is not a constraint. XCOR was FAR scrappier (read: capital-efficient and agile). Blue slow-rolling everything in spite of having basically unlimited funding (at a certain scale) may mean the company's existence overall may actually be hurting more than helping NewSpace.

(I've seen this argument being made about SpaceX, and I didn't believe it because SpaceX has been on a tear and has been delivering operationally for a few years, now... But Blue is still slow-rolling and primarily doing dev work at the small, suborbital scale that SHOULD be the natural harbor for smaller companies but instead they're probably scaring away investment in these smaller suborbital efforts.)
« Last Edit: 01/03/2019 09:13 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Lars-J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4613
  • California
  • Liked: 4225
  • Likes Given: 2555
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1277 on: 01/03/2019 09:33 pm »
Perhaps true but irrelevant. XCOR simply bit off more than they could chew. And it was a bad idea for them to sell tickets (directly or indirectly) to raise funds.
(Despite some on this forum - if I recall correctly - claiming at the time they did not sell tickets) :)
Not irrelevant. The reason Blue was able to forgo selling tickets is also the reason they were able to swoop in and take the ULA business: they were hyper-capitalized. Bezos' billions crowded out XCOR's business and probably scared away investors from XCOR, as well.

The crappy thing is that Blue is barely even doing anything with it. They're very slow in transitioning from development to operations considering money is not a constraint. XCOR was FAR scrappier (read: capital-efficient and agile). Blue slow-rolling everything in spite of having basically unlimited funding (at a certain scale) may mean the company's existence overall may actually be hurting more than helping NewSpace.

This all reads as a list of excuses for XCOR. So they had a well funded competitor? So what. Most businesses deal with that. Some survive, many do not. That's life. And they had a pretty clear run for their first few years without any competitive Blue Origin pressure. They were seen as the top competitor to Virgin Galactic for quite some time.

As "scrappy" as XCOR allegedly was, they did not make much visible progress in their last years. Lynx was going nowhere fast. And we are not privy to the details that made XCOR lose the ULA contract.

But the legend of the infallible XCOR that was only brought down due unfair external events lives on.

EDIT: And how exactly did Blue Origin make XCOR lose a ULA contract? Blue Origin wasn't selected for any ULA upper stage work either. Shouldn't you blame AJR?
« Last Edit: 01/03/2019 09:54 pm by Lars-J »

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3836
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 2517
  • Likes Given: 3249
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1278 on: 01/03/2019 10:05 pm »
From the article, a quote from someone who paid $100,000 for a ticket in 2008:

Quote
There was never any doubt in our minds any inkling that there was a problem within the company.

I'm sorry, but that is simply foolish.

There were always plenty of signs that buying a ticket from Xcor was highly risky.  If people know the risks and make the bet anyway, fine, that's their choice.  But to have someone pay $100,000 for something this risky and then say "never any doubt in our minds" -- well, that's someone who didn't do even the simplest of due diligence.

It's sad because the article goes through the stories of several ticket buyers for whom that $100,000 was a lot of money.

I have to think that if Xcor or its agents were accepting $100,000 from someone and that person doesn't understand that there's a high risk that they will lose their money and never fly, then that rises to the level of fraud by the person who sold the ticket.

Offline Eric Hedman

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
  • Liked: 363
  • Likes Given: 290
Re: XCOR and the Lynx rocket
« Reply #1279 on: 01/04/2019 12:00 am »
From the article, a quote from someone who paid $100,000 for a ticket in 2008:

Quote
There was never any doubt in our minds any inkling that there was a problem within the company.

I'm sorry, but that is simply foolish.

There were always plenty of signs that buying a ticket from Xcor was highly risky.  If people know the risks and make the bet anyway, fine, that's their choice.  But to have someone pay $100,000 for something this risky and then say "never any doubt in our minds" -- well, that's someone who didn't do even the simplest of due diligence.

It's sad because the article goes through the stories of several ticket buyers for whom that $100,000 was a lot of money.

I have to think that if Xcor or its agents were accepting $100,000 from someone and that person doesn't understand that there's a high risk that they will lose their money and never fly, then that rises to the level of fraud by the person who sold the ticket.
If $100,000 was a lot of money to someone, then they simply should not have bought a ticket.  The same can be said for someone who goes to Las Vegas and gambles away their life savings, don't do it if you can't afford to lose it.  It's just like venture capital deals, if you can't afford to do it, don't do it.  If flying into space was that important, but also that financially stressful; wait until the company is actually flying passengers before buying a ticket.  You can't always protect people from their own bad decisions.  I know I've made some and I accept the results and the responsibility for them.

Tags: