Author Topic: $700m gap threatens major delays to Ares test flights/development  (Read 30611 times)

Offline clongton

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12053
  • Connecticut
    • Direct Launcher
  • Liked: 7348
  • Likes Given: 3749
Quote
stockman - 18/1/2008  11:00 AM

This more than anything in my mind shows how risk adverse society in general has become. There is no stomach for losses and no stomach for taking bold steps anymore.

We are never getting off this rock in my lifetime....   :frown:
Give me a 30% chance of survival and I'd go.
Chuck - DIRECT co-founder
I started my career on the Saturn-V F-1A engine

Offline Sid454

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 165
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Quote
edkyle99 - 19/1/2008  6:45 PM

Quote
yinzer - 18/1/2008  5:25 PM

The ESAS report definitely claimed that Ares I was cheaper than an EELV solution.

Right, but that "Ares I" (called CLV at the time) was substantially unlike the current Ares I.  It used a four segment booster and an SSME powered upper stage - items that largely existed.  It weighed 200 tonnes less than the current Ares I at liftoff.  I don't think that anyone is brave enough to claim that an Ares I with a five-segment booster first stage and a J-2X powered upper stage is cheaper than an EELV.

 - Ed Kyle
One idea I played with in fixing ares I since they seem to want it so bad would be to replace the J2x With a plug nozzle J2 which would have a lot of commonality with the already tested XRS2200.
One interesting thing plug nozzles and aerospikes allow is you can now use the expander cycle on larger engine this would allow it to come close to the SSME in efficiency.

Since the J2X would have to be a completely new engine why not just go one step farther and try something really new.

Another interesting result of this is since a plug nozzle engine is it can be used as a heat sheild you get an opportunity to make a small RLV from ares I if extra hydrogen is carried for cooling plus an ablative such as insucork or shuttle thermo blankets added to the upper stage.

Though when used in this manner the payload would drop by 10% vs when used in an expendable mode.

This is not my idea Douglas  beat me to it decades ago with the Saturn applications and upgrades program but much of what was proposed for the Saturn IB could work also for ares I

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/sassto.htm


Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Quote
Sid454 - 20/1/2008  1:37 PM

 BTW the RL60 is at an advanced stage of completion.

It is not.  It is still a long ways (years and $$) from being fielded.

You only posted old PR news.  It hasn't progressed since then

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21451
  • Likes Given: 428
Quote
Sid454 - 20/1/2008  1:37 PM

Then explain the four RL10s on the LSAM and multi engine centaurs.

No extensions on LSAM.  There are only 2 engines on "multi" engine centaurs.  Not the same as 4

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 371
  • Likes Given: 228
As Jim stated, the 4 RL10s on LSAM don't have radiative extensions and those links are obsolete PR pap.  It also has to do with the look angle of the cryo section vs hot section.  The short extension on the old RL10s didn't have much.  Also RL10s were designed for the mutual radiation.  RL60, not.

Quote
Sid454 - 20/1/2008  12:37 PM
I think the centaur guys at Lm are a lot smarter then you are and BTW the RL60 is at an advanced stage of completion.
BTW here's a page on the engine http://www.pratt-whitney.com/vgn-ext-templating/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=34c309d09e91c010VgnVCM1000000881000aRCRD
and some news on it .
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=11883 :cool:
Well, PM me with any of their names (initials, first name, or last name, your call) and we'll see who knows who.  People in this forum know their stuff, especially those of us with govt and corporate badges.  I don't post stuff I don't know.  If you call me out, I'll put you all-in.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline kraisee

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10560
  • Liked: 807
  • Likes Given: 40
Antares knows his engines.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0