Author Topic: Starlink direct to cell (was SpaceX & T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022)  (Read 66782 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #20 on: 08/26/2022 01:07 am »
twitter.com/13ericralph31/status/1562967295772991490

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On the plus side, it's not quite as anxiety-inducing for AST SpaceMobile as I expected. With ~2-4 Mbps PER CELL, it's far simpler and incapable of anything more than ultra-low-bandwidth activities. AST, on the other hand, wants to provide 4G/5G-equivalent service.

https://twitter.com/13ericralph31/status/1562967295772991490

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Will SpaceX decide to jump into that too? TBD and possibly likely, eventually, but AST SpaceMobile still has a big R&D lead and some room to breathe in that realm. Very different technologies.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #21 on: 08/26/2022 01:08 am »
Will a new handset be required for this, or will an existing 5g iPhone work?

Elon stressed that existing phones will work.

It will use part of T-mobile’s existing spectrum.

Online Metalskin

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #22 on: 08/26/2022 01:08 am »
Was anything mentioned about global roaming or if they plan to reach out to mobile carriers from other countries?

I heard Elon say that it should work in the car and walking around, based on lab tests. Was any mention made regarding indoors?

Will a new handset be required for this, or will an existing 5g iPhone work?
I heard them say that it will work with your current phone. I didn't hear any mention of 4G and 5G networks though (I'm not American, so not familiar with T-mobile's network).
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean. - Arthur C. Clarke

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #23 on: 08/26/2022 01:10 am »
Was anything mentioned about global roaming or if they plan to reach out to mobile carriers from other countries?

Yes, T-mobile explicitly said they want to partner with international carriers to offer reciprocal roaming in their respective territories.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #24 on: 08/26/2022 01:11 am »
https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1562957010680696835

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T-Mobile and SpaceX are creating a new network to connect phones to Starlink satellites, carrier's CEO says. Text services will be a part of a beta phase beginning late next year

https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/elon-musks-spacex-t-mobile-us-plan-boost-cellular-coverage-space-2022-08-26/

Online Metalskin

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #25 on: 08/26/2022 01:18 am »
Was anything mentioned about global roaming or if they plan to reach out to mobile carriers from other countries?

Yes, T-mobile explicitly said they want to partner with international carriers to offer reciprocal roaming in their respective territories.

Thanks for the info. I couldn't give the announcement my full attention as I'm at work.

This is going to have huge ramifications. There are going to be a lot of companies interested in how this pans out because of communication limitations with remote areas. Based on what I heard, I presume SMS/Text messaging/consumer async services is the focus, but I wouldn't be surprised if business needs start to rise it's head.
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth when it is quite clearly Ocean. - Arthur C. Clarke

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #26 on: 08/26/2022 01:23 am »
https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/t-mobile-takes-coverage-above-and-beyond-with-spacex

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T‑Mobile Takes Coverage Above and Beyond With SpaceX
August 25, 2022

Companies share their vision to provide truly universal coverage, pairing SpaceX’s breakthrough satellite constellation with T‑Mobile’s industry‑leading wireless network

New service aims to connect vast majority of smartphones already on T‑Mobile’s network to Starlink satellites

Companies issue invitation to world’s carriers to expand globally with reciprocal roaming


Starbase, TX —August 25, 2022 — In a live event today, T-Mobile (NASDAQ: TMUS) CEO and President Mike Sievert and SpaceX Chief Engineer Elon Musk announced Coverage Above and Beyond: a breakthrough new plan to bring cell phone connectivity everywhere. Leveraging Starlink, SpaceX’s constellation of satellites in low Earth orbit, and T-Mobile’s industry-leading wireless network, the Un-carrier plans to provide near complete coverage in most places in the U.S. – even in many of the most remote locations previously unreachable by traditional cell signals.

Today, despite powerful LTE and 5G wireless networks, well over half a million square miles of the U.S. in addition to vast stretches of ocean are untouched by cell signals … from ANY provider. And as anyone who has ever encountered a mobile dead zone knows, the wireless industry has struggled to cover these areas with traditional terrestrial cellular technology, most often due to land-use restrictions (e.g. National Parks), terrain limits (e.g. mountains, deserts and other topographical realities) and America’s sheer vastness. In those areas, people are either disconnected or pay exorbitant rates to lug around a sat phone. SpaceX and T-Mobile share a vision where these uncovered areas are a relic of the past, and today, the companies are taking a first step to make that vision a reality.

From the middle of Death Valley to the Great Smokey Mountains or even that persistent neighborhood dead zone, T-Mobile and SpaceX have a vision to give customers a crucial additional layer of connectivity in areas previously unreachable by cell signals from any provider. And the service aims to work with the phone already in your pocket. The vast majority of smartphones already on T-Mobile’s network will be compatible with the new service using the device’s existing radio. No extra equipment to buy. It just works.

“We’ve always thought differently about what it means to keep customers connected, and that’s why we’re working with the best to deliver coverage above and beyond anything customers have ever seen before,” said Mike Sievert, CEO of T-Mobile. “More than just a groundbreaking alliance, this represents two industry-shaking innovators challenging the old ways of doing things to create something entirely new that will further connect customers and scare competitors.”

“The important thing about this is that it means there are no dead zones anywhere in the world for your cell phone,” said SpaceX Chief Engineer Elon Musk. “We’re incredibly excited to do this with T-Mobile.”

To provide this service, the companies will create a new network, broadcast from Starlink’s satellites using T-Mobile’s mid-band spectrum nationwide. This true satellite-to-cellular service will provide nearly complete coverage almost anywhere a customer can see the sky.

With this technology, T-Mobile is planning to give customers text coverage practically everywhere in the continental US, Hawaii, parts of Alaska, Puerto Rico and territorial waters, even outside the signal of T-Mobile’s network starting with a beta in select areas by the end of next year after SpaceX’s planned satellite launches. Text messaging, including SMS, MMS and participating messaging apps, will empower customers to stay connected and share experiences nearly everywhere. Afterwards, the companies plan to pursue the addition of voice and data coverage.

In addition, the CEOs shared their vision for expanding Coverage Above and Beyond globally, issuing an open invitation to the world’s carriers to collaborate for truly global connectivity. T-Mobile committed to offer reciprocal roaming to those providers working with them to enable this vision.

Today’s news is the next step in T-Mobile’s quest to deliver Coverage Beyond. Earlier this year, the Un-carrier gave customers enhanced connectivity beyond the reach of its network – in the air and abroad. Today’s move is the next step on the path to provide the ultimate coverage experience.

# # #

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #27 on: 08/26/2022 01:26 am »
https://twitter.com/13ericralph31/status/1562970496614158342

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For reference, Musk estimated on stream that this would allow each cell to serve around 1-2k simultaneous voice calls or tens to hundreds of thousands of simultaneous messages. But high-bandwidth activities would require a completely different spectrum and thus different tech.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #28 on: 08/26/2022 01:37 am »
He said the antennas for the cell connection would be about 25 square meters.

Here’s the quote from the stream:

Quote from: Elon Musk
[…] in addition we would fold out the cell spectrum antenna that would also be quite large, on the order of 5 or 6m on a side. I think 25 square meters.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #29 on: 08/26/2022 01:42 am »
Not just for mobile handsets

twitter.com/heydave7/status/1562972283366699009

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Will Tesla cars get this feature too in the future to connect directly to Starlink satellites for emergency calls/texts?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1562978042443857921

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Yes

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #30 on: 08/26/2022 01:44 am »
twitter.com/trengriffin/status/1562973892540768256

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The most interesting thing about the SpaceX/T-Mo announcement is that Starlink satellites would host another service in another frequency. That means other services (eg, satellite imaging) will inevitably use the  SpaceX platform. Economies of scale matter with these services.

https://twitter.com/skorusark/status/1562974706462236672

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If you're going to spend money to put something in space, it's good to get that thing to generate as much $$$ as possible.

Edit: Elon deleted a tweet agreeing with this
« Last Edit: 08/26/2022 02:19 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #31 on: 08/26/2022 02:21 am »
Chairman & CEO of AST SpaceMobile:

https://twitter.com/abelavellan/status/1562987060977614848

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Elon and Mike helped the world focus attention on the huge market opportunity for SpaceMobile, the only planned space-based cellular broadband network. BlueWalker 3, which has a 693 sq ft array, is scheduled for launch within weeks! 🌐📶 #5G

Offline AC in NC

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #32 on: 08/26/2022 02:47 am »
Don't suspect we'll get much, if anything, but would really be fascinated to know what the financial details benefiting SX would be.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #33 on: 08/26/2022 02:54 am »
I was expecting this to happen eventually. Mobile is ultimately a trillion dollar market they’re playing in, and growing. Just a part of it, now. But still. This is why SpaceX is worth the $125 billion valuation (which isn’t even big compared to many broadband and/or mobile providers, who are often very regional). SpaceX could conceivably crack a trillion in market cap.
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To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #34 on: 08/26/2022 03:07 am »
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1562999641968234496

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This new plan with @TMobile is the first step toward global direct to cell connectivity → spacex.com/updates/

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AUGUST 25, 2022
SPACEX INVITES WORLD'S CARRIERS TO COLLABORATE — NO MORE CELL PHONE DEAD ZONES

SpaceX’s Chief Engineer Elon Musk and T-Mobile’s CEO and President Mike Sievert announced today a breakthrough plan to provide truly universal cellular connectivity.

Despite powerful LTE and 5G terrestrial wireless networks, more than 20% of the United States land area and 90% of the Earth remain uncovered by wireless companies. These dead zones have serious consequences for remote communities and those who travel off the grid for work or leisure. The telecom industry has struggled to cover these areas with traditional cellular technology due to land-use restrictions (e.g. National Parks), terrain limits (e.g. mountains, deserts and other topographical realities) and the globe’s sheer vastness. In those areas, people are either left disconnected or resort to lugging around a satellite phone and paying exorbitant rates.

Leveraging Starlink, SpaceX’s constellation of satellites in low Earth orbit, and T-Mobile’s wireless network, the companies are planning to provide customers text coverage practically everywhere in the continental US, Hawaii, parts of Alaska, Puerto Rico and territorial waters, even outside the signal of T-Mobile’s network. The service will be offered starting with a beta in select areas by the end of next year after SpaceX’s planned satellite launches. Text messaging, including SMS, MMS, and participating messaging apps, will empower customers to stay connected and share experiences nearly everywhere. Afterwards, the companies plan to pursue the addition of voice and data coverage.

In addition, Elon and Mike shared their vision for expanding Coverage Above and Beyond globally, issuing an open invitation to the world’s carriers to collaborate for truly global connectivity. T-Mobile committed to offer reciprocal roaming to those providers working with them to enable this vision.

This service will have a tremendous impact on the safety, peace of mind, and individual and business opportunities around the globe. The applications range from connecting hikers in national parks, rural communities, remote sensors and devices, and people and devices in emergency situations, such as firefighters.

This satellite-to-cellular service will provide nearly complete coverage anywhere a customer can see the sky—meaning you can continue texting and eventually make a cell phone call even when you leave terrestrial coverage. We’ve designed our system so that no modifications are required to the cell phone everyone has in their pocket today, and no new firmware, software updates, or apps are needed. As a complementary technology to terrestrial networks, SpaceX can enable mobile network operators to connect more people, fulfill coverage requirements, and create new business opportunities.

If you represent a mobile network operator or regulatory agency and are interested in partnering with SpaceX to bring this new level of mobile connectivity to your region, please reach out to us at [email protected].

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #35 on: 08/26/2022 03:11 am »
Lot of folks bringing up AST Spacemobile being able to offer a higher bandwidth service for mobile connection. 

So how are they able to do this? Bigger satellites than SpaceX? More powerful phone handsets?  And how can they do so with an order of magnitude fewer satellites than Starlink?

In short, what is the competitive advantage they have in this space that SpaceX cannot overcome with a bit of focused effort?
« Last Edit: 08/26/2022 03:22 am by M.E.T. »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #36 on: 08/26/2022 03:11 am »
Don't suspect we'll get much, if anything, but would really be fascinated to know what the financial details benefiting SX would be.

It’s interesting as SpaceX seem to be making a notable investment to enable this and yet T-mobile plan to add for free to their most common plans. So must limit amount T-mobile are prepared to pay SpaceX. Of course Elon is no stranger to big bets, so probably looking at pay off longer-term.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #37 on: 08/26/2022 03:13 am »
The free part is probably because this will be very spotty and experimental at first. Even more so than Starlink Beta. It won't be free forever.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline WindWatcherX

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #38 on: 08/26/2022 03:23 am »
Adding up the size of all the StarLink V2 components....the new sat looks to be very large with 5 X 5 meter cell antennas (one element I did not see or hear from Elon is just how many cell antennas will be on each StarLink V2 sats.... seems we are assuming just 1 cell antenna per V2 sat.....   need to confirm this .... could be two or more....)   plus adding in the broadband antennas, main sat body, solar arrays, lasers, .... will be large.... size of a 737?

Offline FishInferno

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Re: SpaceX and T-mobile event 25 Aug 2022
« Reply #39 on: 08/26/2022 03:30 am »
Don't suspect we'll get much, if anything, but would really be fascinated to know what the financial details benefiting SX would be.

It’s interesting as SpaceX seem to be making a notable investment to enable this and yet T-mobile plan to add for free to their most common plans. So must limit amount T-mobile are prepared to pay SpaceX. Of course Elon is no stranger to big bets, so probably looking at pay off longer-term.

T-Mobile could also be using this as a "loss leader" of sorts to try and get more people on their plans. I imagine this deal was good enough money for SpaceX but relative pocket change for the telecom industry.
Comparing SpaceX and SLS is like comparing paying people to plant fruit trees with merely digging holes and filling them.  - Robotbeat

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