Author Topic: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program  (Read 138580 times)

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #20 on: 08/06/2019 12:42 am »
Maybe use a smaller cheap "heavy" aluminum fairing costing say ~$250K or whatever.  F9 even with RTLS could handle the extra mass.

Then you have to design, build, and validate a new fairing.  May not be worth it for one launch a year, even before you consider the possibility of fairing reuse in the future.

Offline cwr

Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #21 on: 08/06/2019 12:50 am »
Image from SpaceX website. I assume shows something like planned payload adaptor?

Looking at the spacex website, these look like the standard ESPA rings, that I've
seen on prior F9 launches that had rideshare passengers from both east and west coast.

Am I mistaken?

Carl

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #22 on: 08/06/2019 01:18 am »
Image from SpaceX website. I assume shows something like planned payload adaptor?

Looking at the spacex website, these look like the standard ESPA rings, that I've
seen on prior F9 launches that had rideshare passengers from both east and west coast.

Am I mistaken?

Carl
That is correct. I see this as stab against/or a restructuring of the services currently provided by Spaceflight Industries SHERPA in addition to the new service offerings by other Western launch providers (Arianespace et al).

Online Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #23 on: 08/06/2019 04:38 am »
This hurts rideshare organizers more (though SHERPA rings are mobile while this appears to use fixed/dumb/passive ESPA rings). The top mount would be highly desirable for Archinaut/SpiderFab if they are eating the expended ESPA rings to make reflector antennas like the proposed Orbweaver demo. That tasty tasty aluminum sitting right there as a free resource...

Launch on readiness = scheduled cargo liner

we are seeing the transition from contracted tramp steamers to container ships that run on a regular cycle.

Offline FlattestEarth

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #24 on: 08/06/2019 04:43 am »

Offline Semmel

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #25 on: 08/06/2019 07:49 am »
Looking at the payload adapter in the graphic, it looks like there are six 15" ports and two levels of four 24" ports.  You can pay for the top spot as well, but that's not a standard offering.  Each 15" port is being offered at $2.25M (includes up to 150kg nominal mass).  A 24" port goes for $4.5M (includes up to 300kg nominal mass).

A full house would be 6*$2.25M + 8*$4.5M, or $49.5M.

Don't forget that sats mass up to 700 kg by paying $15k per kg extra Full house will likely give more revenue. Say, if max payload is 10 mT, then there is potential to triple the full house number. Not every sat will utilize all that mass so not sure what that is worth. This could be very profitable if half the capacity is used. Also the "included mass" values of 150kg and 300kg respectively are exactly 15k $/kg * included mass . So the included mass is the lower bound of payment SpaceX is willing to accept.

Offline high road

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #26 on: 08/06/2019 08:14 am »
I assume it's not a coincidence they anounced this shortly before RocketLab's big news tonight?

edit: Never mind. Just the smallsat conference going on now. Not Rocket lab making competitors nervous. Or at least, not their anouncement tonight.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2019 11:03 am by high road »

Online Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #27 on: 08/06/2019 08:41 am »
How about Arianespace announcing a similar scheduled rideshare to GEO just now too.

Arianespace’s “GO-1” mission will provide small satellites with a direct flight to geostationary orbit

I posted this over in the ESA launcher area too.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48744.0

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #28 on: 08/06/2019 02:26 pm »
This hurts rideshare organizers more (though SHERPA rings are mobile while this appears to use fixed/dumb/passive ESPA rings).

Spaceflight hasn't done a propulsive SHERPA yet, and at this point I'm a little doubtful they ever will.  Their SSO-A deployers didn't even have attitude control during deployment.

Offline ZachF

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #29 on: 08/06/2019 02:30 pm »
I wonder if they'll eventually offer their Starlink bus?
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
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Offline Mandella

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #30 on: 08/06/2019 04:16 pm »
Well this kicks it up a notch, again.

A couple of observations from the couch:

This seems to be further evidence that reuse is working out for SpaceX, and their price for launch may be even lower than thought, and after only one fairing capture they are really confident they have it down now.

These launches are scheduled for Falcon 9 all the way through 2023, so obviously they intend to keep flying Falcons well into the Starship age. (It could also be seen as that they are hedging their Starship bets.)

I don't imagine that if Starship works out anyone would object to moving the rideshare program over to it though.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2019 04:59 pm by Mandella »

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #31 on: 08/06/2019 04:56 pm »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #32 on: 08/06/2019 09:58 pm »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.
I'd guess you'd call this a small-sat rideshare price matching and launch service availability war to disrupt the current maket leaders into being acquired. Expect ULA to expand there existing offerings to match as well as everyone else.

Online Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #33 on: 08/07/2019 12:20 am »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.
I'd guess you'd call this a small-sat rideshare price matching and launch service availability war to disrupt the current maket leaders into being acquired. Expect ULA to expand there existing offerings to match as well as everyone else.

Jeesh the coincidental timing of all this seems reeeeealy convenient. Almost like there was a cabal of price fixing collusion going on. Is there some convenient term for big space (as opposed to oldspace/newspace), the same way people talk about FAANG or OPEC?

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #34 on: 08/07/2019 01:18 am »
The timing is because the smallsat conference is going on right now, and they're lowering prices, so I doubt the customers are complaining about that.  It's also just two of many launch providers for the LEO orbits.

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #35 on: 08/07/2019 03:43 am »
When asked, Elon has repeatedly said that the expendable smallsat launchers are a dead end, similar to people buying a Cesna airplane to fly somewhere and then crashing it upon landing.

I guess the latest move by SpaceX is to begin the demonstration of why that is the case. And basically forcing the likes of Rocketlab to start experimenting with reusability, even though smaller rockets are not really suited for it.

There will probably be a small remaining market for one-off smallsat launches in unique scenarios, but if volumes grow to a point where F9 or even Starship can launch on a monthly basis with dozens of smallsats on board, the small launchers will be limited to serving a small niche market. And probably won’t justify the significant investments made to date.
« Last Edit: 08/07/2019 03:52 am by M.E.T. »

Offline Mandella

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #36 on: 08/07/2019 03:51 am »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.
I'd guess you'd call this a small-sat rideshare price matching and launch service availability war to disrupt the current maket leaders into being acquired. Expect ULA to expand there existing offerings to match as well as everyone else.

Jeesh the coincidental timing of all this seems reeeeealy convenient. Almost like there was a cabal of price fixing collusion going on. Is there some convenient term for big space (as opposed to oldspace/newspace), the same way people talk about FAANG or OPEC?

Well no. When one business lowers prices followed by a bunch of others lowering prices that's called competition, and is actually the opposite of collusion.

Online Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #37 on: 08/07/2019 03:59 am »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.
I'd guess you'd call this a small-sat rideshare price matching and launch service availability war to disrupt the current maket leaders into being acquired. Expect ULA to expand there existing offerings to match as well as everyone else.

Jeesh the coincidental timing of all this seems reeeeealy convenient. Almost like there was a cabal of price fixing collusion going on. Is there some convenient term for big space (as opposed to oldspace/newspace), the same way people talk about FAANG or OPEC?

Well no. When one business lowers prices followed by a bunch of others lowering prices that's called competition, and is actually the opposite of collusion.

I'm not claiming actual collusion occurred here, but incumbents deliberately dropping prices collectively to snuff out upstarts before they can become profitable (since they themselves are profitable enough to survive selling at margin or even at a loss for a period of time, then raising prices again) is a known tactic.

Online Asteroza

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #38 on: 08/07/2019 04:04 am »
Glavkosmos also announced rideshare pricing on Soyuz at the same rate now.

Is there a press release out for that yet?

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX SmallSat Rideshare Program
« Reply #39 on: 08/07/2019 04:13 am »
Only 3 ESPA rings was shown in the image of the smallsat adapter. If there is enough customer demand for rides, SpaceX could add a few more ESPA rings to accommodated.

Which brings up how much mass could be launched on a F9 into a SSO orbit from SLC-4E at VAFB that allows the recovery of the core returning to the launch site?

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