The gateway map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw&ll=30.479815690358823%2C-70.95175456250001&z=3 shows most of Mexico covered, and southern Canada as well. Whilst covering Mexico may be "incidental" due to Gateways in BC etc, covering Canada is "surely" imo intentional as Gateways are placed close to the Canadian Border. Elon is a Canadian Citizen, lived there, and has family links there. There must imo be an intention to roll out the service to Canada with or soon after the US.
Has there been anything about the rest of the world? Will they probably stick to the U.S./Canada until the laser links come on line, or are they planning ground stations outside North America? (This from the person who complains about people too lazy to read the whole thread)
Quote from: Nomadd on 04/18/2020 04:08 am Has there been anything about the rest of the world? Will they probably stick to the U.S./Canada until the laser links come on line, or are they planning ground stations outside North America? (This from the person who complains about people too lazy to read the whole thread) Actually, I realize that's kind of a dumb question. If they want to keep latency low, they'll still need ground stations all over the place. Laser links don't help much if Germany has to talk to Austria via New York. I've been into a Cisco or two, but routing through thousands of points zipping all over the planet at 15,000 mph is going to be interesting. Maybe more challenging that building the hardware. Is there any possibility they're going to do user to user without going through a gateway once the intersat links are up?
Quote from: Nomadd on 04/18/2020 04:29 pmQuote from: Nomadd on 04/18/2020 04:08 am Has there been anything about the rest of the world? Will they probably stick to the U.S./Canada until the laser links come on line, or are they planning ground stations outside North America? (This from the person who complains about people too lazy to read the whole thread) Actually, I realize that's kind of a dumb question. If they want to keep latency low, they'll still need ground stations all over the place. Laser links don't help much if Germany has to talk to Austria via New York. I've been into a Cisco or two, but routing through thousands of points zipping all over the planet at 15,000 mph is going to be interesting. Maybe more challenging that building the hardware. Is there any possibility they're going to do user to user without going through a gateway once the intersat links are up?As you say the interesting problem is the routeing, not the only interesting one of course. It's been discussed elsewhere the shortest routes may be ISL' s or ground bounces, I can see the military would like the user to user capability.
Particularly interesting is elevation angles down to 25 degrees (which SpaceX admitted would need mechanically steered user terminals). Also no mention whatsoever of crosslinks now being part of the implementation plan...https://twitter.com/TMFAssociates/status/1251373364582612992
He's making a lot of assumptions that in my opinion are flawed and he quite clearly has a bias against SpaceX, so I would take his comments just as opinion and not as news.There is no reason what so every to believe that the user terminals will be mechanically steered during operation. Actually, it doesn't make any sense what so ever to have a mechanically steered phased array antenna other than giving it a bias for latitudes > 53° to extend coverage as fare as possible.
My take on this is that Elon/Gwynne is waiting for military funding to develop & deploy a military requirements constellation with laser inter-satelite communication. Could even be already development funded with black budget money.
Quote from: soltasto on 04/18/2020 06:05 pmHe's making a lot of assumptions that in my opinion are flawed and he quite clearly has a bias against SpaceX, so I would take his comments just as opinion and not as news.There is no reason what so every to believe that the user terminals will be mechanically steered during operation. Actually, it doesn't make any sense what so ever to have a mechanically steered phased array antenna other than giving it a bias for latitudes > 53° to extend coverage as fare as possible.Are the ISL laser links even regulated by the FCC? Firing light beams between satellites wouldn't generate any meaningful interference of any kind. Even if the ISLs are not going live until later revisions of Starlink, it's not as though that in and of itself makes Starlink unsuited for satellite internet access in general. You may not get coverage over large bodies of water/land without downlinks in range, but SpaceX will be busy onboarding people in rural area or large customers like the US military for quite some time.
Quote from: philw1776 on 04/18/2020 05:08 pmMy take on this is that Elon/Gwynne is waiting for military funding to develop & deploy a military requirements constellation with laser inter-satelite communication. Could even be already development funded with black budget money.I don't believe funding is that big an issue. Sure, SpaceX will take advantage of any funding available, but they are committed to progressing as fast as they can and will implement ISC asap. Once ISC in in place I see no reason that there wouldn't be cases for user to user comms without going through a gateway.
After this next launch (6) SpaceX will have a minimum for an operational network with U.S. coverage. I think Alaska/Canada, 70 deg., with 3 launches will be next. What will after that?
Quote from: ThomasGadd on 04/18/2020 07:55 pmAfter this next launch (6) SpaceX will have a minimum for an operational network with U.S. coverage. I think Alaska/Canada, 70 deg., with 3 launches will be next. What will after that? Six launches was for Northern US. Another six for Southern US. Then the rest of the 1500 sat initial deployment. After that it will be interesting to see which inclination they do next.
Quote from: ThomasGadd on 04/18/2020 07:55 pmAfter this next launch (6) SpaceX will have a minimum for an operational network with U.S. coverage. I think Alaska/Canada, 70 deg., with 3 launches will be next. What will after that? The new modification will take 6-9 months to get approved. I believe L7.1 will target the plane where L6.3 would be if L6 would be deployed evenly. Similarly L8.1 will be deployed ahead of L5.3 at the plane where L5.3 would be if deployed evenly. This way first 18 planes will be ready earlier than L6.3 and L5.3 arrive to the target orbit. Then I think L9, L10, L11, etc. will be deployed in groups of 3 planes 5 degrees apart in all slots between previously deployed planes. Illustration:
Quote from: Hummy on 04/18/2020 10:20 pmQuote from: ThomasGadd on 04/18/2020 07:55 pmAfter this next launch (6) SpaceX will have a minimum for an operational network with U.S. coverage. I think Alaska/Canada, 70 deg., with 3 launches will be next. What will after that? The new modification will take 6-9 months to get approved. I believe L7.1 will target the plane where L6.3 would be if L6 would be deployed evenly. Similarly L8.1 will be deployed ahead of L5.3 at the plane where L5.3 would be if deployed evenly. This way first 18 planes will be ready earlier than L6.3 and L5.3 arrive to the target orbit. Then I think L9, L10, L11, etc. will be deployed in groups of 3 planes 5 degrees apart in all slots between previously deployed planes. Illustration:Hummy I wish I understood your diagram.... And I bet I'm not the only one who doesn't. I would expect only half a circle, as the other half, is the rest of the same orbits!!! Is ist a cross section at the equator? A q. tutorial would be helpful.Edit: You know about these things, but since this follows a previous successful amendment that was effectively the same for a different section of its constellation, is there a possibility it may be fast tracked?
Quote from: DistantTemple on 04/18/2020 10:41 pmQuote from: Hummy on 04/18/2020 10:20 pmQuote from: ThomasGadd on 04/18/2020 07:55 pmAfter this next launch (6) SpaceX will have a minimum for an operational network with U.S. coverage. I think Alaska/Canada, 70 deg., with 3 launches will be next. What will after that? The new modification will take 6-9 months to get approved. I believe L7.1 will target the plane where L6.3 would be if L6 would be deployed evenly. Similarly L8.1 will be deployed ahead of L5.3 at the plane where L5.3 would be if deployed evenly. This way first 18 planes will be ready earlier than L6.3 and L5.3 arrive to the target orbit. Then I think L9, L10, L11, etc. will be deployed in groups of 3 planes 5 degrees apart in all slots between previously deployed planes. Illustration:Hummy I wish I understood your diagram.... And I bet I'm not the only one who doesn't. I would expect only half a circle, as the other half, is the rest of the same orbits!!! Is ist a cross section at the equator? A q. tutorial would be helpful.Edit: You know about these things, but since this follows a previous successful amendment that was effectively the same for a different section of its constellation, is there a possibility it may be fast tracked?The dots in the diagram are ascending nodes where a satellite in a plane crosses the equatorial plane going up from the Southern into the Northern Hemisphere (North is up, South is down by convention). L1.1 satellites go up at 0 degrees and go down at 180 degrees. L4.1 satellites go up at 180 degrees and go down at 0 degrees. The orbits are separated by a few kilometers at 0 and 180 degrees altitude-wise. Below is a screenshot of Celestrak showing direction of L1.1 and L4.1 satellites when they are close to each other above the equator.I don't think the FCC can fast track this modification. The FCC has to give time to competitors sharing the spectrum (OneWeb, Telesat, SES, Viasat, and other GEO operators) to analyze the modification and submit objections. The previous interference analysis does not apply verbatim. The competitors will drag. Then the FCC needs to analyze the objections.