Author Topic: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2  (Read 1096045 times)

Offline OTV Booster

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1300 on: 04/07/2020 07:29 pm »
With regard to Starlink and RDOF, I'll remind everyone that back in 2018 SpaceX convinced the FCC to not lump them in with GEO satellites due to lower latency, but after doing so, decided they weren't going to bid for Connect America anyway.  From https://spacenews.com/spacex-wont-seek-u-s-rural-broadband-subsidies-for-starlink-constellation/

Quote
SpaceX believes that it is more effective to leverage advanced technology and smart private sector infrastructure investment to reach America’s unserved and underserved population, rather than seek Government subsidization for this effort,” SpaceX’s Vice President of Satellite Government Affairs, Patricia Cooper, wrote in a May 8 letter to FCC Chairman Ajit Pai.

Cooper thanked the FCC for revising the Connect America auction rules, but said systems like Starlink won’t need government funding to connect rural and other remote areas.

If they bid for RDOF, presumably something changed their minds.


$$?
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Offline ccdengr

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1301 on: 04/07/2020 07:54 pm »
$$?
Presumably.  Maybe it's just me, but I would avoid making flat declarative statements about how I'll never need or want government funding in year N and then go after a bunch of government funding in year N+2, since it seems a tad hypocritical.  But I admit to not being well-suited for how things are done at the highest levels of business.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2020 07:55 pm by ccdengr »

Offline OTV Booster

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1302 on: 04/07/2020 08:06 pm »
With regard to Starlink and RDOF, I'll remind everyone that back in 2018 SpaceX convinced the FCC to not lump them in with GEO satellites due to lower latency, but after doing so, decided they weren't going to bid for Connect America anyway.  From https://spacenews.com/spacex-wont-seek-u-s-rural-broadband-subsidies-for-starlink-constellation/

Quote
SpaceX believes that it is more effective to leverage advanced technology and smart private sector infrastructure investment to reach America’s unserved and underserved population, rather than seek Government subsidization for this effort,” SpaceX’s Vice President of Satellite Government Affairs, Patricia Cooper, wrote in a May 8 letter to FCC Chairman Ajit Pai.

Cooper thanked the FCC for revising the Connect America auction rules, but said systems like Starlink won’t need government funding to connect rural and other remote areas.

If they bid for RDOF, presumably something changed their minds.

$$?

I’m not sure how the subsidy works but I am sure Uncle Sugar will be sending out info packets to everybody in covered areas. Free marketing. Us NSFers know about it. Do residents in remote places out west know?

A win/win, almost free money and a ready made installed base to boot.

Phil
We are on the cusp of revolutionary access to space. One hallmark of a revolution is that there is a disjuncture through which projections do not work. The thread must be picked up anew and the tapestry of history woven with a fresh pattern.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1303 on: 04/07/2020 10:08 pm »
Yes, and everyone should also remember that SpaceX makes exactly the same kinds of filings against their competitors, usually with arguments just as dubious as the ones being leveled at SpaceX now.  It's just the way the game is played.

I have been looking at these types of files for a while now and have found the SpaceX filings to be by-and-large refreshing in their lack of dishonest arguments.  Not pure white by any means, of course.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1304 on: 04/08/2020 03:23 am »
With regard to Starlink and RDOF, I'll remind everyone that back in 2018 SpaceX convinced the FCC to not lump them in with GEO satellites due to lower latency, but after doing so, decided they weren't going to bid for Connect America anyway.  From https://spacenews.com/spacex-wont-seek-u-s-rural-broadband-subsidies-for-starlink-constellation/

If they bid for RDOF, presumably something changed their minds.

Based on the turn of events, it's more like they changed their mind in 2018 when they decided not to bid in previous auction. Bidding on auction is their default stance, something changed in May 2018 that made them give up that particular auction, so what changed back then? Well, in June 2018 Elon fired the top management of Starlink because they're moving too slowly, so this is probably the reason: They realized in May 2018 that their progress back then won't be fast enough to satisfy the auction requirements.

Offline envy887

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1305 on: 04/08/2020 02:39 pm »
$$?
Presumably.  Maybe it's just me, but I would avoid making flat declarative statements about how I'll never need or want government funding in year N and then go after a bunch of government funding in year N+2, since it seems a tad hypocritical.  But I admit to not being well-suited for how things are done at the highest levels of business.

They didn't say "never", and didn't say they didn't say they want funding. More like they couldn't use the funding, because  per the auction rules for CAF they would have had to complete 40% of the subsidized connections within 3 years. They were likely not in a position to meet that schedule in 2018.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1306 on: 04/08/2020 06:47 pm »
 I'm sure this has been covered, but is there a good sense of if the original bunch of sats will be good for anything, since they're missing the Ka band radios needed for gateways?
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1307 on: 04/08/2020 07:12 pm »
Perhaps they could be used for user terminals acting as ground relays.

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1308 on: 04/08/2020 07:51 pm »
I'm sure this has been covered, but is there a good sense of if the original bunch of sats will be good for anything, since they're missing the Ka band radios needed for gateways?

Kinda depends on if the FCC authorizes those Ku gateways or not.  Starlink is not currently licensed to use Ku gateways, but they've been getting away with using them on STAs during the test phase.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1309 on: 04/09/2020 03:09 pm »
One thing that SpaceX will do to demonstrate gigabit capability while not getting into an argument with critics is the ongoing four-times-a-year DoD testing.  That is building credibility.

The first year of consumer service could be bumpy, so perhaps SpaceX will wait until the RDOF auction has finished before introducing beta consumer service.

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1310 on: 04/10/2020 07:24 pm »
Location of a proposed Starlink Ground Station at CCAFS next to the SpaceX Fairing Processing Facility [BLDG 70507 at CCAFS, the old Titan era Payload Fairing Cleaning Facility].


Edit to add St Johns River WMD link (thanks for reminder gongora!)

https://permitting.sjrwmd.com/epermitting/jsp/Search.do?theAction=searchDetail&permitNumber=161809
« Last Edit: 04/11/2020 10:50 am by AnalogMan »

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1311 on: 04/11/2020 12:21 am »
Location of a proposed Starlink Ground Station at CCAFS next to the SpaceX Fairing Processing Facility [BLDG 70507 at CCAFS, the old Titan era Payload Fairing Cleaning Facility].

The document seems to be from the St. Johns River WMD site.  That one hasn't been submitted to the FCC yet.

edit:  That document also shows it as a Ku quad, so wouldn't be a normal Starlink gateway.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2020 12:28 am by gongora »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1312 on: 04/11/2020 04:19 pm »
https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1249005553629540359

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By far my best result of the 2020/03/24 imaging session of Starlink-2 satellites. Captured almost exactly overhead. Clear visiblity of bus and detail in solar panel. @SpaceX @SpaceXStarlink @elonmusk @planet4589 @Teslarati @Marco_Langbroek @Sterne_Weltraum @universetoday

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1313 on: 04/14/2020 07:05 am »
https://twitter.com/wordsmithfl/status/1249838401865633793

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Recently filed permitting requests show SpaceX wants to build a Starlink ground station near its fairing processing facility at the Cape. Not groundbreaking news, but amid the drove of usual construction permits, this one stands out.

Offline niwax

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1314 on: 04/18/2020 02:16 am »
New filing
https://fcc.report/IBFS/SAT-MOD-20200417-00037

Quote
Space Exploration Holdings, LLC seeks to modify its Ku/Ka-band NGSO license to relocate satellites previously authorized to operate at altitudes from 1,110 km to 1,325 km down to altitudes ranging from 540 km to 570 km, and to make related changes.

Pretty much as expected. A nice side effect is that this removes the most serious chunk of astronomy interference, especially late at night.
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history! (discussion)

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1315 on: 04/18/2020 02:51 am »
Pretty much as expected.

Some expected, some not so much.  We'll see how that inclination change plays out.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1316 on: 04/18/2020 04:08 am »
 Has there been anything about the rest of the world? Will they probably stick to the U.S./Canada until the laser links come on line, or are they planning ground stations outside North America? (This from the person who complains about people too lazy to read the whole thread)
« Last Edit: 04/18/2020 04:09 am by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline gongora

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1317 on: 04/18/2020 04:26 am »
I haven't seen info about ground stations elsewhere, but they must be working on it.  Weren't there some Starlink filings in Australia?  We need our non-US members to dig for info in their countries  :)

Offline FlattestEarth

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1318 on: 04/18/2020 11:15 am »
Hmm, really want to see a visualization of the modified constellation.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 2
« Reply #1319 on: 04/18/2020 12:39 pm »
Has there been anything about the rest of the world? Will they probably stick to the U.S./Canada until the laser links come on line, or are they planning ground stations outside North America? (This from the person who complains about people too lazy to read the whole thread)
The change to the inclinations will as they say in the "Narrative Application" improve their coverage and latency in Alaska, for government in polar regions, and around the world.
They imply the change will also speed deployment to these areas.

ISTM that communicating with ground stations and gateways, for these satellites will now be almost identical to the rest of their constellations (if there was much difference, the application mentions reduced power etc), so building gateways and deploying ground stations will have no technical boundaries between the 53o inc and the rest, facilitating a consistent build, and roll-out.

The gateway map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1H1x8jZs8vfjy60TvKgpbYs_grargieVw&ll=30.479815690358823%2C-70.95175456250001&z=3
shows most of Mexico covered, and southern Canada as well. Whilst covering Mexico may be "incidental" due to Gateways in BC etc, covering Canada is "surely" imo intentional as Gateways are placed close to the Canadian Border. Elon is a Canadian Citizen, lived there, and has family links there. There must imo be an intention to roll out the service to Canada with or soon after the US.

The 70o planes clearly have dense coverage of Alaska and Canada, and these along with the 90o (ish) will give complete coverage to aircraft etc with great circle routes in the Arctic.

Is anyone watching for regulatory filings in Canada and Mexico..... or Norway/Sweden. (Norway loves Tesla, and its ideal for Starlink), or Canada.... South Africa.... and anywhere else. Chile (for Antarctica....)

EDIT: Or property purchase. Or Job Advertisements for offices/officials in these countries. If there are to be Gateways, and distribution of ground stations there will have to be an office. The extra activities will mean new hires.
« Last Edit: 04/18/2020 12:45 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

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