Author Topic: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings  (Read 285223 times)

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #640 on: 10/29/2023 06:28 pm »
This is quite interesting.  Maybe the FCC is setting up a precedent where they treat Starlink and Kuiper the same.
If you are suggesting Kuiper is going to get a year to deploy half of whatever follow-on constellation(s) they want to launch, then good luck with that Kuiper.  (Or anyone else, for that matter).

No, my suggestion was that Kuiper will get an extra couple of years to hit its interim milestones for its first constellation. I think the risk is very low that the FCC will trim the size of Kuiper's first constellation, assuming that Kuiper is making good progress on its deployment.

With this order, Starlink needs to ask for an extension of time on the V-band interim milestones before Kuiper needs to ask for an extension of time on interim milestones for its first constellation.  So Starlink will set the precedent.

I can't imagine that the FCC would trim the size of Starlink V-band constellation and then turn around and grant the extension to Kuiper.  What would be the basis for doing so?

In any event, it just seems like the FCC should have no interest in trimming the size of the Starlink V-band constellation because the result would be no fewer satellites overall.  After all, the V-band is virgin territory for constellations and there was a big cross-agency effort a few years ago to regulate its use by constellations.
I understand where you're coming from and it kinda makes sense.  On the other hand, it penalizes a company that has been successful and that seems wrong.  Perhaps the FCC should treat any first constellation extension request i.e. SpaceX shouldn't be "penalized" because they haven't needed an extension for Starlink.

I agree that success shouldn't be penalized, but the FCC has competing interests.  They want to maximize use of the frequencies and maximize competition.  The FCC may prefer to have a slight, non-consequential trim of Starlink's V-band license to end up with a strong precedent.

Further complicating this supposed V-band extension request is Telesat's surprising extension request that they filed a few days ago.  That one will be first in queue, so it may set the precedent.  Because Telesat's request is for an extra 4.5 years, the FCC may choose to be firm with them, resulting in the need to be firm with SpaceX and Kuiper.  Alternatively, one of Telesat's excuses is the covid-19 pandemic, so the FCC may give them a two-year extension and then do the same to SpaceX and Kuiper and say "no more."
« Last Edit: 10/29/2023 06:59 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline Rebel44

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #641 on: 10/29/2023 10:49 pm »
I agree that a ~2 year extension based on the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and resulting supply-chain disruptions seems like a reasonable thing that the FCC is likely to approve to relevant players.

Online gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #642 on: 11/29/2023 09:12 pm »
2398-EX-ST-2023   
Quote
Space Exploration Holdings, LLC (“SpaceX”) requests special temporary authority (“STA”) for 180 days beginning December 10, 2023 to test its non-geostationary orbit (“NGSO”) second generation (“Gen2”) satellites1 with direct-to-cellular communications payloads ... Over the 180-day experimental STA period, SpaceX expects to operate approximately 840 satellites with direct-to-cellular payloads.

Online gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #643 on: 12/15/2023 04:02 am »
2486-EX-ST-2023

SpaceX filed for a permit to test the Ka-band parabolic antennas (what they use in gateways) aboard the droneships.

Offline raptorx2

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #644 on: 12/17/2023 03:31 am »
2486-EX-ST-2023

SpaceX filed for a permit to test the Ka-band parabolic antennas (what they use in gateways) aboard the droneships.

Earth Stations Gateways in Motion, similar to the "Community Gateway" installed in Unalaska. 

Data transfer from the ISL's to the Feeder Links delivers massive secure throughput to Naval Ships, Cruise Ships, Larger Aircraft.

The ability to aggregate data from the ISL's from multiple inclinations/altitudes depending on location. ie  53 525km, 43 530km, 33 535km (Gen.2)

This drives a stake through the heart of In Motion GEO providers.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2023 03:34 am by raptorx2 »

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #645 on: 12/18/2023 04:38 pm »
Earth Stations Gateways in Motion, similar to the "Community Gateway" installed in Unalaska. 

Data transfer from the ISL's to the Feeder Links delivers massive secure throughput to Naval Ships, Cruise Ships, Larger Aircraft.

The ability to aggregate data from the ISL's from multiple inclinations/altitudes depending on location. ie  53 525km, 43 530km, 33 535km (Gen.2)

This drives a stake through the heart of In Motion GEO providers.

Further to this, Starlink's gateway in Unalaska provides 10 Gbps capacity using four parabolic antennas.  This STA also proposes using four parabolic antennas for each drone ship.

I wonder why they don't use phased array antennas for these gateways.  Not powerful enough?

With regard to In Motion GEO providers, I note that these are radiation hazards, so probably wouldn't have them on planes and maybe not on ships.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2023 04:53 pm by RedLineTrain »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #646 on: 12/18/2023 05:05 pm »
Further to this, Starlink's gateway in Unalaska provides 10 Gbps capacity using four parabolic antennas.  This STA also proposes using four parabolic antennas for each drone ship.
As I guess most of us know, a parabolic can point at only one satellite at a time. This means a set of four antennas can usually maintain contact with three satellites continuously as one satellite is shifting from a setting satellite to the next rising satellite.
Quote
I wonder why they don't use phased array antennas for these gateways.  Not powerful enough?
Antenna "power" is called "gain".  Oversimplifying, a parabolic will have higher gain than a phased array of the same size.
Quote
With regard to In Motion GEO providers, I note that these are radiation hazards, so probably wouldn't have them on planes and maybe not on ships.
I'm not sure what you mean. There have been GEO terminals on commercial passenger aircraft for at least 15 years. The earlier ones used somewhat oddly-shaped parabolics under radomes. You can see the bumps on top of the aircraft at any big airport.

Offline raptorx2

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #647 on: 12/18/2023 09:53 pm »
Earth Stations Gateways in Motion, similar to the "Community Gateway" installed in Unalaska. 

Data transfer from the ISL's to the Feeder Links delivers massive secure throughput to Naval Ships, Cruise Ships, Larger Aircraft.

The ability to aggregate data from the ISL's from multiple inclinations/altitudes depending on location. ie  53 525km, 43 530km, 33 535km (Gen.2)

This drives a stake through the heart of In Motion GEO providers.

Further to this, Starlink's gateway in Unalaska provides 10 Gbps capacity using four parabolic antennas.  This STA also proposes using four parabolic antennas for each drone ship.

I wonder why they don't use phased array antennas for these gateways.  Not powerful enough?

With regard to In Motion GEO providers, I note that these are radiation hazards, so probably wouldn't have them on planes and maybe not on ships.

Actually, the STA proposes using 12 antennas per ship, only 4 active at a given time.  So this would lead to the conclusion that they have developed 4 different antenna variations for the purpose of this STA testing.

Also to note that the 10Gbps data rate was from the "Community Gateway" in Unalaska.  This latitude is served exclusively by Group 5 (53 degree) V1.5 satellites.

Gen 2 Laser links launched on V2.0 Minis starting with 6-1, and then SpaceX updated those with the next generation Laser Links which began deployment on 7-3 on Sept. 25th as having total capcity of  100Gbps Links.

Online gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #648 on: 12/18/2023 10:08 pm »
Actually, the STA proposes using 12 antennas per ship, only 4 active at a given time.

Twelve total.  There are 3 droneships.  Four on each ship.

Offline raptorx2

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #649 on: 12/20/2023 02:23 am »
Actually, the STA proposes using 12 antennas per ship, only 4 active at a given time.

Twelve total.  There are 3 droneships.  Four on each ship.

Fair enough... I was WRONG.

SpaceX filed experimental for 6-39 today including drone ship recovery beginning 1/17

Online gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #650 on: 01/19/2024 01:24 pm »
Yesterday SpaceX filed for about 30 of the big Ka/E-band gateways, one example attached.

Offline raptorx2

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #651 on: 02/06/2024 11:48 pm »
FCC has questions for ASDS Gateways in Motion.

https://twitter.com/FREESPEECH1017/status/1755013122774200488

Offline raptorx2

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #652 on: 02/08/2024 11:28 pm »
SpaceX replies.  Acknowledges the Gateways in Motion will act as a backhaul local network traffic in certain configurations.

https://twitter.com/FREESPEECH1017/status/1755309615859011700

Offline OceanCat

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #653 on: 02/21/2024 09:09 am »
Quote
SpaceX is proud to report that its
second-generation satellites have performed even better than expected, including during the launch
and early orbit phase of their operations where atmospheric drag on the satellites is at a maximum.
Based on the early successes of its second-generation satellites, SpaceX requests authority to
leverage the shells included in its application in the 340 km-360 km range as an option within its
first tranche of 7,500 satellites.

Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #654 on: 02/21/2024 03:31 pm »
Quote
SpaceX is proud to report that its
second-generation satellites have performed even better than expected, including during the launch
and early orbit phase of their operations where atmospheric drag on the satellites is at a maximum.
Based on the early successes of its second-generation satellites, SpaceX requests authority to
leverage the shells included in its application in the 340 km-360 km range as an option within its
first tranche of 7,500 satellites.

Makes sense. For context, 360km has been where the first 6 direct-to-device sats have been operating ever since launch at the beginning of the year on 7-9.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #655 on: 02/24/2024 02:46 pm »
Quote
SpaceX is proud to report that its
second-generation satellites have performed even better than expected, including during the launch
and early orbit phase of their operations where atmospheric drag on the satellites is at a maximum.
Based on the early successes of its second-generation satellites, SpaceX requests authority to
leverage the shells included in its application in the 340 km-360 km range as an option within its
first tranche of 7,500 satellites.

I'm surprised that at this time, SpaceX didn't ask for more satellites to fill the VLEO shells.

Online gongora

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Re: Starlink : New FCC and ITU Filings
« Reply #656 on: 02/24/2024 07:33 pm »
Until Starship is deploying Starlinks they don't really have much use for more approved sats.

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