Author Topic: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds  (Read 202699 times)

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #600 on: 11/07/2023 02:20 am »
I guess this thread is the best place for SpaceX’s overall financial performance:

https://twitter.com/bloombergtv/status/1721656003677093895?s=46&t=eQrUtTJk6IAt4GyTzH7J2w

Absolutely kicking ass and taking names.

$15B revenue projection for 2024. That’s mind boggling considering $3B was a good year when they were just a launch business a few years ago. $15B is halfway to the “mythical” $30B annual revenue Starlink is hoped to eventually reach. Sure, this will probably include $5-6B in launch revenue, but still, it is an astounding jump in just a few short years.

What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary. Been a few years since I studied the accounting treatment of related party transactions of this nature, so might need to dust off the old textbooks, unless we have a CPA in the thread to give us a quick refresher.

EDIT

As in, can SpaceX charge Starlink a market related price per launch and then count that as revenue sitting in accounts receivable? That could account for maybe $2-3B of “revenue” for the holding company. Starlink will then have corresponding accounts payable sitting on their books. And still be cash flow positive if they met the minimum instalment payment to SpaceX for 2023.

Or must Starlink first on-sell the services enabled by that launch purchase to a final customer for that revenue to be recognized by the group? It gets a bit technical, so would be interesting to get some insight into it.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2023 02:31 am by M.E.T. »

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #601 on: 11/07/2023 12:27 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #602 on: 11/07/2023 01:04 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.
If they're going to call Starlink cashflow positive, they must be accounting for launch costs. I don't know if they're allowed to juggle the numbers to shift revenue to whichever part of the company.
 Maybe one of those weirdos who understands tax law knows.
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Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #603 on: 11/07/2023 01:30 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.

It is a subsidiary owned by the SpaceX holding company. That’s to lay the groundwork for any future IPO. So they can IPO the Starlink business while keeping SpaceX itself private. I will try to find a reference for that, but it is definitely the case.

EDIT

Found a brief reference, but it’s probably explained in more detail elsewhere. I recall the announcement at the time when the structure was revealed.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tech/what-elon-musk-starlink-available-cost-uk-b1095053.html


In the article a section states:

“What is Starlink?
Starlink is a satellite internet project, and a subsidiary of aerospace company SpaceX, owned by Elon Musk.“
« Last Edit: 11/07/2023 01:37 pm by M.E.T. »

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #604 on: 11/07/2023 02:00 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.
It is a subsidiary owned by the SpaceX holding company. That’s to lay the groundwork for any future IPO. So they can IPO the Starlink business while keeping SpaceX itself private. I will try to find a reference for that, but it is definitely the case.
Wikipedia only lists https://swarm.space/ as a subsidiary.

And from https://www.starlink.com/

Quote
Starlink is a division of SpaceX.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2023 02:06 pm by jpo234 »
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Online DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #605 on: 11/07/2023 02:07 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.
If they're going to call Starlink cashflow positive, they must be accounting for launch costs. I don't know if they're allowed to juggle the numbers to shift revenue to whichever part of the company.
 Maybe one of those weirdos who understands tax law knows.
IANAA, but I do know for sure that you can keep separate books. One set complies strictly with the IRS rules, and a separate set complies with GAAP (i.e., General Accepted Accounting Practices). Most of the accounts in the sets are the same, but some are different.

Transfer payments between subdivisions of a company are even more arcane than contracts. A very broad range of transfer payments are all justifiable, but no, the two subdivisions are not allowed to use separate numbers for the same transfer.

I don't think it really matters in detail right now. SpaceX has no need for extra cash and therefore no need to spin off Starlink with an IPO, or go public as a whole. It they do sell stock either way in the near future, the investors are buying the dream, not the present reality, and the exact accounting details won't matter unless they are actively fraudulent.

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #606 on: 11/07/2023 02:10 pm »
I don't think it really matters in detail right now. SpaceX has no need for extra cash and therefore no need to spin off Starlink with an IPO, or go public as a whole. It they do sell stock either way in the near future, the investors are buying the dream, not the present reality, and the exact accounting details won't matter unless they are actively fraudulent.
I agree, but they have private equity investors that might want to cash out at some point.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #607 on: 11/07/2023 02:17 pm »
What I wonder is how they account for the billions in related party transactions between the SpaceX holding company and the Starlink wholly owned subsidiary.

AFAIK Starlink is not a subsidiary of SpaceX but merely an operating division.
It is a subsidiary owned by the SpaceX holding company. That’s to lay the groundwork for any future IPO. So they can IPO the Starlink business while keeping SpaceX itself private. I will try to find a reference for that, but it is definitely the case.
Wikipedia only lists https://swarm.space/ as a subsidiary.

And from https://www.starlink.com/

Quote
Starlink is a division of SpaceX.

It’s a subsidiary. In fact there are a number of them. Some set up specifically for certain countries. SpaceX is the holding company.

Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #608 on: 12/07/2023 03:04 am »
Quote
Scoop: SpaceX close to finalizing a tender offer at $95 per share, valuing the company at $175B+. (You could say valuation keeps soaring like a rocket ship)

https://twitter.com/Katie_Roof/status/1732537549489324423

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #609 on: 12/07/2023 05:26 am »
Quote
Scoop: SpaceX close to finalizing a tender offer at $95 per share, valuing the company at $175B+. (You could say valuation keeps soaring like a rocket ship)

https://twitter.com/Katie_Roof/status/1732537549489324423
Seriously, why is Bloomberg calling SpaceX a startup? Instead of the dominate global launch provider and global commercial spacecraft operator.  ::)

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #610 on: 12/07/2023 03:15 pm »
Seriously, why is Bloomberg calling SpaceX a startup? Instead of the dominate global launch provider and global commercial spacecraft operator.  ::)

It's shorthand for "venture-backed privately-held company that is on a startup trajectory."  That seems like a more or less acceptable description to me, even though the VCs didn't enter the picture until several years into the company's existence, SpaceX or Starlink are not on a typical IPO path for such companies, and its growth trajectory is just getting started.  It correctly invites comparison to Stripe, but not pre-IPO Aramco.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2023 03:22 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #611 on: 12/08/2023 02:48 am »
SpaceX now valued at $175B in a new insider share sale.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-06/spacex-tender-offer-said-to-value-startup-at-175-billion-plus

This is not SpaceX raising money, just some current owners selling some shares.

Nice.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #612 on: 12/08/2023 05:37 pm »
Seriously, why is Bloomberg calling SpaceX a startup? Instead of the dominate global launch provider and global commercial spacecraft operator.  ::)

It's shorthand for "venture-backed privately-held company that is on a startup trajectory."  That seems like a more or less acceptable description to me, even though the VCs didn't enter the picture until several years into the company's existence, SpaceX or Starlink are not on a typical IPO path for such companies, and its growth trajectory is just getting started.  It correctly invites comparison to Stripe, but not pre-IPO Aramco.

Yeah, way back when the definition of a startup was something along the lines of what Steve Blank (an adjunct professor of entrepreneurship at Stanford) defined:
Quote
"A startup is a temporary organization used to search for a repeatable and scalable business model."

The usual succession of events was that a "startup" would be formed as a C Corporation, then get outside funding in the form of venture capital, and that entity would either fail or have some sort of exit from being a startup by being acquired (the more common outcome) or go public.

SpaceX was definitely a technology startup when it was formed, but it has yet to fail or have a some sort of exit for its investors - i.e. money back from their investment.

Stockholders in the company, both investors and employees, have been able to sell shares periodically through a secondary market, which is quite common in the startup world. That appears to be the situation with this latest headline.

But yeah, if SpaceX was originally a technology startup, it still is until it either fails, gets bought, or goes public. And as a reference, they are the #2 largest unicorn "startup" in the world, according to Wikipedia.
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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #613 on: 12/13/2023 04:55 pm »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1734992891863257350

Quote
Confirmed: SpaceX valuation hits $180 billion, based on the latest secondary sale process at $97 a share, per a CNBC source familiar with the discussions.

Quote
SpaceX's latest valuation ranks above the market value of top U.S. defense contractors – including Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman – as well as the most valuable U.S. telecom companies – such as Verizon and AT&T.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/13/spacex-value-climbs-to-180-billion-higher-than-boeing-verizon.html
« Last Edit: 12/13/2023 04:56 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Tywin

Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #614 on: 01/25/2024 06:10 pm »
Could the very HIGH valuation of SpaceX (180 Billions), follow the Tesla crash in a future?

https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/TSLA
« Last Edit: 01/25/2024 06:13 pm by Tywin »
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #615 on: 01/25/2024 08:17 pm »
Sure, but I think SpaceX is the most exotic species of startup.  It has never had a single down-round in its 20 years of existence.

Offline Tywin

Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #616 on: 01/25/2024 09:56 pm »
Sure, but I think SpaceX is the most exotic species of startup.  It has never had a single down-round in its 20 years of existence.

Yeah but the trees, don't grow to the sky...
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Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #617 on: 01/25/2024 10:22 pm »
Sure, but I think SpaceX is the most exotic species of startup.  It has never had a single down-round in its 20 years of existence.

Yeah but the trees, don't grow to the sky...

No doubt, but you were asking about volatility.  Both launch and broadband internet are inherently stable businesses, even when growth is very high.

There's a good reason why SpaceX was doing up-rounds when everybody else was doing down-rounds.  Even other golden startups like Stripe did down-rounds.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2024 10:25 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline Tywin

Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #618 on: 01/25/2024 11:03 pm »
Sure, but I think SpaceX is the most exotic species of startup.  It has never had a single down-round in its 20 years of existence.

Yeah but the trees, don't grow to the sky...

No doubt, but you were asking about volatility.  Both launch and broadband internet are inherently stable businesses, even when growth is very high.

There's a good reason why SpaceX was doing up-rounds when everybody else was doing down-rounds.  Even other golden startups like Stripe did down-rounds.


Even a 180 billion valuation?

Because THAT is the question...
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Online matthewkantar

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Re: SpaceX corporate fundraising rounds
« Reply #619 on: 01/26/2024 02:07 am »
Sure, but I think SpaceX is the most exotic species of startup.  It has never had a single down-round in its 20 years of existence.

Yeah but the trees, don't grow to the sky...

No doubt, but you were asking about volatility.  Both launch and broadband internet are inherently stable businesses, even when growth is very high.

There's a good reason why SpaceX was doing up-rounds when everybody else was doing down-rounds.  Even other golden startups like Stripe did down-rounds.


Even a 180 billion valuation?

Because THAT is the question...
I read that SpaceX took in 3 billion dollars from Starlink last year. Naively, that’s around 750 thousand dollars per satellite. With thirty thousand satellites, that’s 22 billions a year. A valuation of 180 billion is a P/E ratio of 8.

That’s without counting the rocket business. Compare that to Apple or GM WITH P/E ratios in the high twenties.

The current valuation is waaaaaay low.

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