Author Topic: SpaceX EVA suit  (Read 236255 times)

Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #40 on: 07/06/2017 11:56 am »
The emergency capability must be there for ITS, there is after all at least one airlock that can be used. But that does not mean that every suit that SpaceX makes (or buys) would be capable of it.

Lars, what is on the outside of the ITS that would need human intervention? Remember that the ITS is an aerodynamically shaped vehicle. It will have a smooth surface for earth atmospheric entry. Like Shuttle, It will "fly" most of the way down.

Failure to deploy or retract any number of external components such as PV arrays and antennas; servicing external heat exchanger radiators and vents; servicing/repair of electronic components and voltage regulators mounted external to the pressure vessel; inspection/repair of docking or berthing mechanisms ... Don't mistake the sleek renderings from last fall for an operational spacecraft.
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Offline Bynaus

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #41 on: 07/06/2017 12:01 pm »
Engines, radiators, solar panels - plenty of stuff you might want to have access to if needed (how many times did an emergency on ISS require a space walk?).

But I agree with Cherokee43v6: longer term, there might simply not be a need for soft, human-shaped mini-spaceships anymore, instead we'll just use tele-operated robots with full virtual immersion (and/or some artificial intelligence to perform standard tasks). Time-lag is definetly not a problem if the operations take place only a few 10 m away max. The question is whether that "longer term" will conincide with the time-frame of the first ITS operations.
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Online jpo234

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #42 on: 07/06/2017 12:09 pm »
Gwynne Shotwell recently said that it looks like space tourism could become a viable business. If this turns out to be true, than floating around in the confined space of a vehicle would probably become stale pretty quickly, but stepping out of the vehicle and experience space directly would never become old (if you ask me).

Think the EVA scenes from "Passengers" (not when the reactor needs to be vented).
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 12:10 pm by jpo234 »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #43 on: 07/06/2017 01:06 pm »
Someone suggested SpaceX outsource an EVA suit.

I don't think SpaceX will need a zero gee optimized EVA suit.

They need one optimized for Mars. And no one makes one. SpaceX is likely to make one themselves.
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Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #44 on: 07/06/2017 04:00 pm »
Gwynne Shotwell recently said that it looks like space tourism could become a viable business. If this turns out to be true, than floating around in the confined space of a vehicle would probably become stale pretty quickly, but stepping out of the vehicle and experience space directly would never become old (if you ask me).

Think the EVA scenes from "Passengers" (not when the reactor needs to be vented).

I doubt passengers will want to take that risk unnecessarily, and SpaceX wouldn't enable those that did. stable people don't go jumping off cruise ships so they can swim in the open ocean. people might want to float in a big lucite ball hanging off a space station, but i don't envision EVA tourist jaunts.

Offline JamesH65

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #45 on: 07/06/2017 04:23 pm »
Gwynne Shotwell recently said that it looks like space tourism could become a viable business. If this turns out to be true, than floating around in the confined space of a vehicle would probably become stale pretty quickly, but stepping out of the vehicle and experience space directly would never become old (if you ask me).

Think the EVA scenes from "Passengers" (not when the reactor needs to be vented).

I doubt passengers will want to take that risk unnecessarily, and SpaceX wouldn't enable those that did. stable people don't go jumping off cruise ships so they can swim in the open ocean. people might want to float in a big lucite ball hanging off a space station, but i don't envision EVA tourist jaunts.

Never underestimate the human desire for the next level of excitement. People do go jumping of yachts when cruising around...

Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #46 on: 07/06/2017 04:30 pm »
Gwynne Shotwell recently said that it looks like space tourism could become a viable business. If this turns out to be true, than floating around in the confined space of a vehicle would probably become stale pretty quickly, but stepping out of the vehicle and experience space directly would never become old (if you ask me).

Think the EVA scenes from "Passengers" (not when the reactor needs to be vented).

I doubt passengers will want to take that risk unnecessarily, and SpaceX wouldn't enable those that did. stable people don't go jumping off cruise ships so they can swim in the open ocean. people might want to float in a big lucite ball hanging off a space station, but i don't envision EVA tourist jaunts.

Never underestimate the human desire for the next level of excitement. People do go jumping of yachts when cruising around...

I know it's OT, but...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/03/07/passenger-jumps-from-cruise-ship/81446182/

Quote
"It's next to impossible to fall off a ship without climbing over a railing," notes Mike Driscoll, editor of Cruiseweek, a weekly publication that follows the industry. "Most over-boards to date have been suicides."

once spacetravel has advanced enough that billionaires (trillionaires?) own their own personal rockets and space yachts, they're welcome to do whatever they like.
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 04:41 pm by RoboGoofers »

Offline whitelancer64

Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #47 on: 07/06/2017 04:53 pm »
I was always a bit puzzled by the different pressure suit designs used in the film 'The Martian'. On the Martian surface they were using what appeared to be at least partly mechanical counter-pressure suits, but in deep space for EVAs they were using what looked pretty close to ISS-era big, white conventional full pressure suits. With the Martian environment being pretty close to an effective vacuum - shouldn't most of the suits used in the story be the same type? Or for deep space EVAs outside of even Mars's thin atmosphere; would the suits have required an additional micro-meteorite or radiation protective coverall?

I imagine these are all consideration factors for spacesuits of the 2020s and 2030's - how light and flexible can they get? What differences would the suits have for planetary surface and 'raw' deep space use? Full pressure, but bearing-articulated EMUs? Full or partial mechanical counter-pressure? How much thermal, micro-meteorite and radiation proof coatings do they need? How much will function determine form? The Apollo and Shuttle era suits' form was pretty much defined by the needed functions. I doubt aesthetics were ever a consideration. Though Elon has said he wants his suits to look 'cool'. A broad a definition as any, I should think.

First off, the Mars environment is not a near vacuum, it's about 1% of the atmospheric pressure on Earth. That's sufficient to drive a whole host of design changes for a spacesuit that are different from choices that would be made for vacuum operation.

Primarily this would be the cooling apparatus: a skin-tight suit on Mars can use passive cooling, the suit can wick away sweat from the body and the atmosphere can cool convectively. In vacuum, that's less practicable, active cooling is currently used.

As has been said elsewhere, Mars has just enough atmosphere to cause lots of design problems, but not enough to be super useful for things like breathing.

Secondly, you are bang on about an outer micrometeorite layer being needed for space operations that isn't needed on the surface of Mars, where again, the atmosphere effectively is the micrometeorite layer.
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Online jpo234

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #48 on: 07/06/2017 05:42 pm »



I doubt passengers will want to take that risk unnecessarily, and SpaceX wouldn't enable those that did. stable people don't go jumping off cruise ships so they can swim in the open ocean. people might want to float in a big lucite ball hanging off a space station, but i don't envision EVA tourist jaunts.

Never underestimate the human desire for the next level of excitement. People do go jumping of yachts when cruising around...

People, especially rich ones, do such things all the time. They climb the Everest, go on sled expeditions to the poles or dive to the bottom of the Mariana trench. I can easily imagine that someone wants to go EVA after his pal already flew around the moon.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline DOCinCT

Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #49 on: 07/06/2017 07:07 pm »
Aren't EVA suits the equivalent of mini-spaceships or capsules?  Life support for extended periods, propulsion, protection from small stuff?
Suits inside of a capsule don't have to do most of that. Suits for the Martian surface don't need propulsion, life support yes but not at the level of extended "space walks"???

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #50 on: 07/07/2017 06:48 pm »
There is a thread about the movie. Maybe that would be a better place for discussions about The Martian?

Some posts moved there:
forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37663
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 06:54 pm by Lar »
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Online clongton

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #51 on: 07/07/2017 07:02 pm »
Lars, what is on the outside of the ITS that would need human intervention? Remember that the ITS is an aerodynamically shaped vehicle. It will have a smooth surface for earth atmospheric entry. Like Shuttle, It will "fly" most of the way down.

Failure to deploy or retract any number of external components such as PV arrays and antennas; servicing external heat exchanger radiators and vents; servicing/repair of electronic components and voltage regulators mounted external to the pressure vessel; inspection/repair of docking or berthing mechanisms ... Don't mistake the sleek renderings from last fall for an operational spacecraft.
Engines, radiators, solar panels - plenty of stuff you might want to have access to if needed (how many times did an emergency on ISS require a space walk?).

ISS is irrelevant. Vacuum-only spacecraft are all irrelevant. Everyone is forgetting that this thing is not only a spacecraft; it is also an AIRCRAFT – similar to Shuttle in many ways. It has to operate inside an atmosphere; Mars, but more importantly, Earth. What do you think would happen once it begins to interface the atmosphere if it’s got equipment mounted on the outside? Can anyone say Columbia? Because the demise would be similar. I am not mistaking the [impractical] sleek design from last September for what this vehicle will ultimately end up looking like, but I am saying that it will *not* have equipment protruding thru the hull to complicate atmospheric entry at re-entry velocity.

Not only does this vehicle need to operate in the pure vacuum of space – it also needs to be able to FLY in the atmosphere. That precludes the kind of stuff you guys are talking about. It won’t be on the outside like that. Reentry would rip that stuff completely off, if the vehicle even survived long enough.

Anything that has to be deployed and then retracted will be serviced 1st from inside the vehicle and then, if necessary tele-robotically. IMO that’s the way it will be designed. No human EVA.
« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 07:03 pm by clongton »
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Offline meberbs

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #52 on: 07/07/2017 07:51 pm »
Not only does this vehicle need to operate in the pure vacuum of space Ė it also needs to be able to FLY in the atmosphere. That precludes the kind of stuff you guys are talking about. It wonít be on the outside like that. Reentry would rip that stuff completely off, if the vehicle even survived long enough.
The specific items that were mentioned were engines, solar panels, radiators, and external docking ports. Literally none of those can perform their functions if internal, and they are all 100% mission essential. Obviously some will need covers of some sort for launch/reentry, and obviously some are deployable like the solar arrays, but those are then more mechanisms that could break and require a spacewalk to fix.

Anything that has to be deployed and then retracted will be serviced 1st from inside the vehicle and then, if necessary tele-robotically. IMO thatís the way it will be designed. No human EVA.
I am interested in how you think deploy/retraction methods would work so that these things could be done from inside the vehicle. Especially something like the external surface of a docking port, but also things like solar panels that deploy on the far side of the tanks from the habitable section. Also what kind of tele-robotics can fix a stuck mechanism at the far end of a deployed solar panel (remember, they will have huge solar panels)

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #53 on: 07/07/2017 07:56 pm »
Airplanes have things that stick out. Antennae, pitot tubes, etc. They are streamlined and strengthened, but there will be protuberances. Carefully engineered not to interfere with reentry but some.
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Online darkenfast

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #54 on: 07/08/2017 05:56 am »
Don't confuse "inside the vehicle" with "inside the vehicle's pressure hull".
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Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #55 on: 10/28/2017 09:46 pm »
Just buy Orlans. And the Russian version of SAFER.

Offline JazzFan

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #56 on: 10/28/2017 10:56 pm »
Just buy Orlans. And the Russian version of SAFER.

Not part of Elon's vision.  If that was the case they would have bought engines, pumps, tanks, etc. 

Offline nacnud

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #57 on: 10/29/2017 12:36 am »
Just buy Orlans. And the Russian version of SAFER.

I don't think there is a Russian version of SAFER. Plus once there is a known commercial demand I think there will be a quick iterative improvement in suits well suited to SpaceX's vertical integration philosophy.

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #58 on: 11/04/2017 10:43 am »
The Russian version of SAFER was indeed developed and is a frame which goes around the long Orlan backpack. It works just like the US version.

I'm sure I've seen it tested on the ISS.

Offline obi-wan

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Re: SpaceX EVA suit
« Reply #59 on: 11/04/2017 05:19 pm »
The Russian version of SAFER was indeed developed and is a frame which goes around the long Orlan backpack. It works just like the US version.

I'm sure I've seen it tested on the ISS.

NASA asked if they could develop a version of SAFER for Orlan. The Russians declined. They use a double-tether protocol on EVAs since they have no recourse if they get separated. (From friends at JSC who built SAFER.)

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