With the flight 5 1/2 weeks away (hopefully), I wonder if he'll have time to heal sufficiently even if he's on the good side of the scale, and if he doesn't if NASA will have to delay the flight.
Quote from: Lee Jay on 01/16/2011 02:52 amWith the flight 5 1/2 weeks away (hopefully), I wonder if he'll have time to heal sufficiently even if he's on the good side of the scale, and if he doesn't if NASA will have to delay the flight.Does NASA have backups for every crew member on the mission?
Personally I would have thought that within 8 weeks of a launch, these guys would be locked down to what they could do, as the financial consequences of delays are enormous.
No alternates, as mentioned above - that ended after STS-3.
another things not EVA-related??
Now there's a space medicine study wanting to be done, how does a broken bone heal in space? The lack of weight on the break is good for it or not? I wonder would the usual space induced bone loss also cause a problem in the healing of a break as new calcium is not being replaced, at anywhere near the 1g rate?
Hopefully Tim Kopra's injury turns out to be minor. However if he needs to be replaced I suspect these are the possibilities:Nicolle Stott - She has been the IV for STS-133 and has done an EVA. She would probably have the shortest learning curve on the EVA's. It would be a lot easier for another astronaut to step in and take over the IV role.
How much time does it take to train a Flight Engineer (i.e. how many hours of study and how many sim runs and what else am I missing)?Here's hoping for the best for Tim Kopra. I'd think this CDR/PLT/FE team has trained so long on ascent, entry, and on-orbit ops that I'd hate to have to throw someone new into the mix.
How much time does it take to train a Flight Engineer (i.e. how many hours of study and how many sim runs and what else am I missing)?
Is there a reason why they couldn't roll out 134 and get that mission underway?
Quote from: Sarah on 01/16/2011 07:04 pmIs there a reason why they couldn't roll out 134 and get that mission underway?Because 133 needs to go first, there are several articles and posts in the forums if you want more details.
I'm not comfortable with any of this until official details are known. What if he's just chipped a bone (possible with a bike accident), etc?I'm giving this four lines in the article and will see how this plays out. I'll stick with stringers, cause we know about stringers
Quote from: Chris Bergin on 01/16/2011 08:52 pmI'm not comfortable with any of this until official details are known. What if he's just chipped a bone (possible with a bike accident), etc?I'm giving this four lines in the article and will see how this plays out. I'll stick with stringers, cause we know about stringers Stringers are like bones without medical privacy concerns.
I'm surprised a shuttle astronaut would partake in risky activities when injuries could potentially delay a mission, costing the US taxpayers millions of dollars. NASA may need to look at restrictions on the extra-curricular activities of our astronauts in the future. In any case, I hope Kopra makes a full recovery and the mission can go on without serious delay.
The only way to perfectly prevent, without fail, any event like this would be to live in a bubble wrapped jail cell. Not gonna happen.
He was riding a push-bike! That's hardly free climbing, skin-diving or BASE jumping! What are you proposing, that they are wrapped in cotton wool and placed in quarantine for the last month like the Apollo lunar crews?
Quote from: Davidgojr on 01/17/2011 07:50 amI'm surprised a shuttle astronaut would partake in risky activities when injuries could potentially delay a mission, costing the US taxpayers millions of dollars. NASA may need to look at restrictions on the extra-curricular activities of our astronauts in the future. In any case, I hope Kopra makes a full recovery and the mission can go on without serious delay.The man was keeping in shape as any astronaut would do. Instead of running, he rides a bike, hardly a risky activity. And who is to say it was his fault even, we do not know any details, he could have been hit by some soccer mom in her SUV yacking on her cellphone instead of driving. I mean come on, the guy could have tripped and fell down the stairs and gotten hurt worse.
Better to just continue backup crew training. Then you also cover for the truly uncontrollable, and you allow your crew a reasonable amount of discretion of their own activities so they don't go stir crazy before launch.
Are any of the subs being discussed here subject to reflight restrictions, i.e. not being on the ground long enough between flights? Especially if they were Expedition crew.
It sounds like what happened to Tim Kopra could have happened to any of us in our everyday routine. He was riding a bicycle, lots of people exercise or ride to work. You can get hurt doing lots of things you do every day (getting out of bed, the shower, driving to work, walking around the neighborhood, going to the store, etc.). The only way to perfectly prevent, without fail, any event like this would be to live in a bubble wrapped jail cell. Not gonna happen.
I'm trying to recall shuttle cases of crew replacements, and I remember Mark Lee being bumped off a mission but that was a year before flight or so. We also had cases where a backup was designated when medical concerns arose, but I don't think that was ever needed. Memory jogs, anyone?
Karen Nyberg (STS-132), Gus Loria (STS-113), and Noriega (STS-121) had no effect on those missions' launch dates.
Quote from: ChrisGebhardt on 01/18/2011 06:32 pmKaren Nyberg (STS-132), Gus Loria (STS-113), and Noriega (STS-121) had no effect on those missions' launch dates.True but he is asking to recall crew replacements in general.
Leardawg and Rocket Guy, do you have any details on delays etc as a result of those? Curious as how long of a slip resulted from those. I know each instance is unique, but still good info.
Quote from: asmolenski on 01/18/2011 06:15 pmLeardawg and Rocket Guy, do you have any details on delays etc as a result of those? Curious as how long of a slip resulted from those. I know each instance is unique, but still good info. Actually, I'm not aware of any delay to a flight being actually caused by the need to replace a crew member. Even Apollo 13 was launched on time, 3 days after a swap was made.
I understand what he's asking for. I answered the occasions I knew.And while it's easy to claim that STS-113 would have been delayed had it not been the pilot who stepped down, 113 was already slipping because of the the growing delays to 112/Atlantis ahead of it. And, if memory serves, Gus stepped down in the summer months of 2002... when STS-113 was already moving toward a late-year launch in the November time frame... so getting into hypotheticals about 113 isn't really relevant here.
Reportedly a replacement 133 crewmember has now been decided on -- name as yet unavailable to me.
Cool, thanks Jim. I guess that crewmember can slip in without the launch date being moved?
Quote from: Chris Bergin on 01/18/2011 07:32 pmCool, thanks Jim. I guess that crewmember can slip in without the launch date being moved?At L-36 days? Don't count on it...
Because of the factors he calls out, one would think an "EVA specialist" like Robert Curbeam or Scott Parazynski would be on the short list (if they're even still active). Or anyone recently engaged in similar EVA activities/areas.
Quote from: PahTo on 01/18/2011 08:05 pmBecause of the factors he calls out, one would think an "EVA specialist" like Robert Curbeam or Scott Parazynski would be on the short list (if they're even still active). Or anyone recently engaged in similar EVA activities/areas.There's more to it than the EVAs:http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23833.msg680978#msg680978
ChrisG nailed it with the above post. Because of the factors he calls out, one would think an "EVA specialist" like Robert Curbeam or Scott Parazynski would be on the short list (if they're even still active). Or anyone recently engaged in similar EVA activities/areas.Perhaps try to work a swap with the potential STS-135 crew?Best wishes to TKopra--this must be heartbreaking as well as bone breaking...
Tim could also swap with a 135 crewmember and he (Tim) can take his spot on 135 later in the year...
Can they take a crew-member from STS-134? We have to remember the new crew-member have to be Flight Engineer trained as well. Michael T. Good would be the most recently flown FE that has done EVAs
Michael T. Good would be the most recently flown FE that has done EVAs
Quote from: Space Pete on 01/18/2011 07:50 pmQuote from: Chris Bergin on 01/18/2011 07:32 pmCool, thanks Jim. I guess that crewmember can slip in without the launch date being moved?At L-36 days? Don't count on it...The biggest question here will be "to what level of training and proficiency will the replacement crewmember need to have in order to execute the necessary duties on this flight?" That will drive the discussion on the effect this may have on Discovery's launch date. They will also be looking at things like how recent has the replacement crewmember flown, and were any EVA tasks on recent missions similar to those needing to be performed on 133?Obviously, as we've seen many times, EVAs get changed on orbit with little more than one day's notice. Sometimes, entire EVAs get added and all the crew does is read the overview of the activities they're now tasked with.So the ultimate question is: How trained does this replacement crewmember need to be before launch?
Assuming it's a flown crewman, what's the shortest-ever shuttle interval for making three flights? Two flights within a year -- it's happened. Didn't Crippen get a rush job back in the early days?
Assuming it's a flown crewman, what's the shortest-ever shuttle interval for making three flights? Didn't Crippen get a rush job back in the early days?
I figure -- Fastest three flights:
If there is a major slip for STS-133, would Kopra be reinstalled?
Quote from: JimO on 01/19/2011 04:21 pmI figure -- Fastest three flights: Oops, missed this one:Charles Walker: 1984 August 30, 1985 April 12, 1985 Nov 26. = 453 days Hat tip to Tomas Pribyl, Czech Republic.
Also, as well as having the shortest time between Shuttle flights in history, he will also have the shortest time between ISS visits in history!
Quote from: Space Pete on 01/19/2011 07:29 pmAlso, as well as having the shortest time between Shuttle flights in history, he will also have the shortest time between ISS visits in history!Not sure if it is the shortest time for Bowen...(between flights)STS-83 and STS-94 in 1997 were launched only a few months apart with the same crew.....
I figureFastest three flights: Crippen 1983 June 18, 1984 Apr 6, 1984 Oct 5 474 days Bowen 2008 Nov 14, 2010 May 14, 2011 Feb 24 467 days
Gotta feel bad for Kopra though - in training since September 2009, fighting through all those delays, now it's all for nought.
Quote from: Space Pete on 01/19/2011 07:29 pmAlso, as well as having the shortest time between Shuttle flights in history, he will also have the shortest time between ISS visits in history!Yep, this is the first time a US Astronaut has had back-to-back space missions. Some karma for a guy who actually got bumped from his first flight assignment (he'd been assigned to STS-124, but was bumped to make room for ISS FE Greg Chamitoff).
Well my head is spinning. I'm stunned. First it's Mr. Giffords
Yep, this is the first time a US Astronaut has had back-to-back space missions.