Author Topic: What can we do to get young people more supportive of space exploration?  (Read 23703 times)

Offline high road

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.

I think it's age and nostalgia getting to you. Hardware is being delivered all the time.  Just not by people, as that's very inefficient. The last module to be docked to the ISS caused the most exitement in the existence of the station (for the wrong reasons) There are plenty of EVA's on ISS that are equally as exciting/boring as Shuttle EVA's. We might see fewer and fewer of them as technology matures.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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More younger people, like Haley Arceneaux, flying.

More opportunities to fly and do things in space.

Currently, the perception is that you have to be in your late 40's or early 50's to even have a shot at being an Astronaut.  There is also the fact that even if you are in the Astronaut Corps, your opportunities to fly are very limited.

Yes, the need for experience to bring to the table, along with certain long-term health risks, has driven the age aspect.  However, I feel that an injection of youth and energy into that side of things could pay great long-term dividends, especially in exciting the younger generations by saying 'look, there ARE opportunities for you... and they are now".

I think that the next important thing is going to be more flights like Inspiration4 and particularly, the Axiom station being launched.

Youth is excited by the opportunity to actively participate.
« Last Edit: 09/27/2021 02:02 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
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Online Lee Jay

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.

I think it's age and nostalgia getting to you. Hardware is being delivered all the time.  Just not by people,

And that's the problem as far as excitement goes.

Quote
..as that's very inefficient. The last module to be docked to the ISS caused the most exitement in the existence of the station (for the wrong reasons) There are plenty of EVA's on ISS that are equally as exciting/boring as Shuttle EVA's. We might see fewer and fewer of them as technology matures.

But it's all spread out, not compacted all together into a single 10-15 day Shuttle mission.  From an interest and excitement point of view, that's a lot lower on the food chain.

Offline apollolanding

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I started my son young.  Astronaut space suit for Halloween, trips to Air & Space, KSC, Wallops and a half dozen other aerospace museums and airshows, LEGO sets of the LM and a scratch built Mars Rover, watching launches on the internet...  To this day I'll get a text from him, "did you see the launch today?"  Invest the time when they are young. 
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Offline su27k

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According to https://universumglobal.com/rankings/united-states-of-america/, SpaceX ranks #1 in most attractive employers to Engineering students in 2021, NASA ranks #3, Lockheed/Boeing/Northrop are all in top 10. SpaceX and NASA also rank pretty high (in top 15) by Computer Science and Natural Sciences students.

So it looks to me among those young people who are properly educated, space is already a hot topic, the question then is how to give more people a STEM education.

Offline scienceguy

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I started being interested in space when I saw Star Wars when I was 8.
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Offline Pipcard

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

Offline su27k

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Young people are fine, at least those who understands what's going on: MIT professor: Interest in space careers at an all-time high

Quote from: SpaceNews
MIT’s Department of Aeronautics & Astronautics graduate admissions program this past year saw a record number of applicants, “most of whom want to work in the space business,” said Daniel Hastings, professor and head of the department.

NASA’s exploration achievements and SpaceX’s high-profile space missions are driving enthusiasm at colleges and universities, Hastings said Sept. 28 at the Space Sector Market Conference in Cambridge, Mass.

“I can’t tell you how many students think that flying a helicopter on Mars is just a cool thing to do. They want to do things like that, it’s really attractive to a lot of students,” said Hastings.

Offline MATTBLAK

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
THIS!!
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Offline Welsh Dragon

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Offline MATTBLAK

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline Welsh Dragon

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
I would counter that most people here have an unrealistically positive and blinkered view that doesn't confirm to the real world. I wouldn't say saying most people don't care either way is negative at all. It's just the facts, and anything that isn't actively hostile is fine by me.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
I would counter that most people here have an unrealistically positive and blinkered view that doesn't confirm to the real world. I wouldn't say saying most people don't care either way is negative at all. It's just the facts, and anything that isn't actively hostile is fine by me.

This comment makes a ton of sense.  We, the space fans, have drunk the coolaid... and now we're standing around talking about how we would convince those who think like us!

This is one of the reasons for my comment above.

If you want excitement from the younger set, you must provide opportunities for them to be PART of it.

An 18 year old can join his local volunteer fire department and garner the accolades of being a hero.

Similarly, people in that age range can attend a law enforcement academy and become police officers, or they can join the military and go to sea with the Navy or learn to drive tanks in the Army.

In their early twenties, they can be officers in the Air Force and fly fighter jets.

Yet to be an Astronaut, the dream of many a young child, you do not even get looked at until your late 30's... at best.  You have a better chance of winning the lottery... with a lot less work.  You cannot plan a career about being a spaceflight participant, thus it remains the realm of pipe-dream.

Current Astronauts are 'twice chosen' as the term goes.  They have to not only commit to the vision and stick with the plan, but they have to survive a period of ridicule, where those that know them peripherally wonder why they're so committed to something that has no guarantee of ever panning out.  If they survive that and stay with it, make it to the qualifications and earn the right to apply, then there is still only a slim chance of actually becoming an Astronaut (Dr. Sian Proctor, for example, missed the cut at NASA by a slim margin).

More opportunities for younger people to be part of the program is KEY to getting younger people excited.

Period.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2021 02:02 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
"I didn't open the can of worms...
        ...I just pointed at it and laughed a little too loudly."

Offline Cherokee43v6

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I will also say that it is not a case of younger people not being interested.

Otherwise, why the popularity of:

Star Trek (all iterations)
Star Wars
Battlestar Galactica
The Expanse
Guardians of the Galaxy
Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato 2199/2202
Gundam
Cowboy Bebop

and the many other space based Sci Fi novels, comics, anime, movies and tv shows of the last couple decades?

But what do all these have in common?

Younger participants as part of the story.  The cast of characters are not just a bunch of folks in their 40's and 50's.  They spread from their late teens through the full range.  They are popular not only because of the entertainment value, but because the viewer can see themselves being within the story.

The desire is there.  It may be buried, hidden or ignored... but it is there.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2021 03:51 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
"I didn't open the can of worms...
        ...I just pointed at it and laughed a little too loudly."

Offline Pipcard

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
Part of this is the notion that "billionaires intentionally conspire to abandon us on a dying planet as they escape to space." Not saying that I agree with this (nor do I believe in hero-worshipping billionaires), but that's their argument. The film Elysium has influenced this sentiment, although I haven't seen it yet.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2021 11:13 am by Pipcard »

Offline woods170

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Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Wrong.

I'm a volunteer for an obscure little space museum in the Netherlands. One of our activities is that we organize lectures about spaceflight and astronomy subjects. After each lecture there is time for questions and discussion.

Over the past 24 years I've seen many times where people in the audience came up with "we must abandon spaceflight and use the funds to fix poverty/famine/climate change".

This thing is NOT a view falsely held by space fans. It actually does exist in the general public and it's been in existence for a long time. The first comments of this nature from the general public go as far back as the Apollo program.

Offline darkenfast

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The day of the Columbia disaster, a local high school drama teacher told me that, while she was sorry those people had died, maybe now they'd stop wasting money on space and start spending it on education and social programs. I was around her a lot that year and she was not shy about telling her students what views they should have. 
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Offline JayWee

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Maybe people think space is waaay more expensive than it really is?

Offline su27k

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Maybe people think space is waaay more expensive than it really is?

They do:

Average American Guess: NASA Gets One-Fourth of US Budget

Americans Overestimate NASA's Share of US Budget

but that's only part of the problem.

Offline nicp

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Some well educated people absolutely do not care one jot about space or spaceflight.
An old friend of mine, an arts graduate who knew several languages and became an accountant is a case in point.
A very intelligent guy, but I once mentioned something about Jupiter and his response was something like "Oh, that's millions of miles away, it doesn't have any effect on the real world.". I believe he meant 'real effect on people'.

He just wasn't interested, and you can't force people to be interested. You can try to make it interesting with TV shows whether fictional or otherwise (and I would argue some of NASA's TV stuff is _deeply_ boring - was it in the movie 'Apollo 13', someone says something like "You make going to the Moon about as exciting as going to Pittsburgh.").

Make presentation of reality more fun, and more exciting (Tim Dodd and NASASpaceflight do a good job) - most other media do not.
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