Author Topic: What can we do to get young people more supportive of space exploration?  (Read 23950 times)

Offline CmdrShepN7

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I find it sad that many young people are indifferent, ignorant, or even opposed to space exploration.

What about the satellites that give us GPS and radio? What about the medical tech that came from NASA?

How could a person be that ignorant?

Couldn't something like the Jim Webb Space Telescope and the discovery of life in the underwater ocean of Jupiter's Moon Europa reduce the amount of religious fundamentalism in the world? If so progressives should support that.

Why is it so easy to pick on NASA? Why aren't these people calling for large portions of the military budget and higher taxes on the wealthy to pay for social programs and fighting climate change?

Couldn't space exploration be used to inspire a new generation to get interested in science and technology? That would be useful in the fight against climate change.

Couldn't astronauts inspire people to push themselves both physically and mentally? I know I have.


I used to be interested in space and science back in 2014 but sadly by 2016 I lost interest. Thanks to the quarantine I check out this alternate history soap opera on Apple TV and it reignites my interest in spaceflight and space exploration.


I then check out other astronaut shows like Disney+'s "The Right Stuff" and Netflix's "Away". Apple's "For All Mankind" was better than both of them. I also devour anything astronaut themed I could find. I enjoyed "The Martian", "Interstellar", and even "Gravity". I loved historical space exploration themed movies like "The Right Stuff", "Apollo 13", "Hidden Figures", and "First Man". I even check out a Russian movie called "Salyut-7" and a Japanese anime called "Planetes". I also loved documentaries like "Challenger Final Flight" and "When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions". HBO's "From the Earth to the Moon" and "Planetes" were some of the most optimistic TV I watched last year.

« Last Edit: 07/12/2023 02:45 am by CmdrShepN7 »

Offline leovinus

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It is a valid question. In a broader context I would change it to "how to make people/children interested in tomorrow instead of living the immediate gratification life just in the today?".

While I have no great answer, my simple thinking would be two-fold. Basically, less CableTV and less Fa[ck]ebook time and more books to read which encourages concentration, dreams and time commitment to reach the end. With endings that inspire and lead to a realization "Wow, I never though about that!" and many questions to their peers and parents. From Jules Verne "to the moon" to, I don't know, "Harry Potter" or even "Moving Mars". 

For the older ones, plenty of reading material in the Hard science fiction books thread.

Good luck.

Offline Endeavour_01

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Couple of quick thoughts from a 30 year old.

1. Inform them. One of my favorite verses from the Bible is Hosea 4:6a, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." It points out how harmful a lack of knowledge and understanding can be to a society.

It is easy to think that space spending is wasteful when you have no idea how space exploration has benefited humanity. As space advocates we need to do a better job of educating people on the tangible benefits of spaceflight (some of which you pointed out above).

2. Excite them. The accomplishments of SpaceX and NASA in recent years (particularly F9 reusablility, Falcon Heavy, Crew Dragon, Perseverance/Ingenuity, etc.) have caused an explosion of excitement among non-space people.
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starship/SH, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline Amos

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Offline Jim

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Telescopes didn’t do it for me

Offline JonahH

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As a young individual myself (under 18), I thought I should make a comment or two on this thread.

For many of the individuals on this forum, it's hard to imagine our lives without space exploration in one way or another. Nonetheless, we have to remember we represent a minute fraction of the general population. I was recently baffled when I tried to make conversation with my peers about Inspiration 4, and the seismic shift this flight could have for the industry all together. None of them are deeply into aerospace; they won't be tuning in to watch stacking operations and cryo proofs, nor will they be trying to learn about combustion instability problems on Apollo. But given that I4 was supposed to be one of the most publicized launches of the decade, I thought people would have at least heard of it in passing.

Put shortly, I kept on getting blank stares. The only comment I got back from someone was about Starship, to which they thought "isn't that the rocket Jeff Bezos is building"? Not even my AP Physics C teacher (that's the most advanced physics class offered by the college board for high school students) or a teacher with an aerospace degree were aware.

So what do we do? A recent strategy of mine has been to help inspire and educate. I've made a school club to converse about aerospace in the backdrop of an engineering project to use a modified satellite dish measure the rotation rate of the galaxy.

For others, we could try to ease them in with media. Perhaps not the daily videos of Boca Chica at first (new people often glance out the window because of all the construction noises if you can believe it). But give them some hard sci-fi, maybe shows mentioned by CmdrShepN7, or even engineering-enthused kids Eric Burger's "Liftoff".

Also, more grandeous explanations seem to work. I once had to give a presentation in a business course about a struggle within a unique industry, and gave the tale of how SpaceX heraleded in an age of "New Space" with a focus on delivering cheaper, faster, and more robust hardware against all odds. That seemed to make a lot of kids interested, as well as the teacher.

There's a lot of exciting sectors of spaceflight, but for now, people don't stop to think. I'd love to hear if anyone else has more ideas, since our current high schoolers might very well end up being the minds that help us to land humans on Mars (given that nearly every engineer at SpaceX is 27). I'm also happy to answer any questions.

Offline Amos

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Telescopes didn’t do it for me

As a long-time lurker I've come to seriously respect your expertise, Jim - Can I ask what did do it for you?

I ask because I've spent a lot of time doing hands-on interpretive programs with telescopes, and never really had a participant who wasn't "into it".

Offline Jim

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Telescopes didn’t do it for me

As a long-time lurker I've come to seriously respect your expertise, Jim - Can I ask what did do it for you?

I ask because I've spent a lot of time doing hands-on interpretive programs with telescopes, and never really had a participant who wasn't "into it".

Televised space missions in the 60’s

Offline FishInferno

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I'm going to on a little target about my thoughts on this, as a "young person" (21) studying computer science:

The Apollo program captivated the world (and young people with it) because it was inherently exciting. Going to the Moon was new and groundbreaking, and most people who would otherwise be indifferent or skeptical were too awestruck to think about it. But under the reign of the Shuttle and ISS, we haven't been doing anything new. Yes, technically Hubble and the various experiments on the ISS have done new things, but the fact remains that humans have not gone below LEO since 1972.

Thus, the general public doesn't see modern human spaceflight as actually doing much of anything. And to their credit, it really doesn't. Therein exists a catch-22 situation, where in order for the public to be inspired, progress has to be made. This is already apparent with SpaceX. SpaceX's first successful landings of F9 seemed to make more headlines than Demo-2, because reusable rockets are new but sending people to LEO isn't. SpaceX in general seems to have permeated pop culture far more than the Artemis program, and SpaceX barely advertises while NASA puts out endless PR content.

So basically, if you want people excited about spaceflight, spaceflight has to be exciting. The initial Mars missions will undoubtedly have their detractors. But most people will be too busy tilting their heads up at the night sky, searching for Mars so they can wave hello.
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Offline Coastal Ron

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When I was in high school I was aware that "stuff" was made in factories, but I had no idea what type of jobs were in factories besides iron workers and assemblers. I stumbled into manufacturing operations by answering an ad in the local paper for a "Management Intern", that happened to be at a local manufacturing company. And I LOVED my job.

My point is that despite this thing called "the internet", young people today still have a limited view into all the different areas of interest there are, whether for a vocation (what you get paid to do) or an avocation (something you do for fun outside of work). And that won't change, because life is FILLED with a vast range of things to do for vocations and avocations.

For me "space" is an avocation, and I actually have a number of avocations.

My daughters generation surprised me by being very focused on getting an education in something challenging. But thought my daughter actually works in a job that is tech heavy, she doesn't have an interest in space. Why?

Partly that is because young people today are growing up with a better sense of the world around them. The can see in real time what is happening around the work, and for some of them they are truly focused on solving the problems here on Earth. And sure, some of the technology we need to solve problems here on Earth is space-based, but just because someone supports the use of oceanographic buoys for collecting information about the ocean, that doesn't mean they want to live on/in the ocean.

So the best way to get young people interested in space is to keep doing what we've been doing. Because I think it is random who will be interested and/or passionate in space. And what we really need young people to do is get an education in the fields that we need in order to expand humanity out into space. And luckily the degrees we need are useful for non-space use too, so there is little risk in people getting them.

Not sure I've said anything new, but my $0.02
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Asteroza

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Telescopes didn’t do it for me

As a long-time lurker I've come to seriously respect your expertise, Jim - Can I ask what did do it for you?

I ask because I've spent a lot of time doing hands-on interpretive programs with telescopes, and never really had a participant who wasn't "into it".

Televised space missions in the 60’s

Now I am REALLY curious, is there a specific mission or aspect from that period that hooked you? There was a lot of "beating the russians" as well as a genuine american hero aspects from that time. Or was it more Buck Rogers scifi starting to come real?

Offline Lee Jay

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

Offline MATTBLAK

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One way you can increase interest in space as a natural progression; try find a way to stamp out the constant, 24/7 barrage of conspiracy theories, flat earthers and 'space isn't even real' imbeciles who pollute social media, comments sections on news and science websites, YouTube etc. Their barrage is determined and relentless and they *ARE* getting converts and winning hearts and minds, every day. There are not many people actually doing it; but they are doing it for free, with an almost religious zeal. No amount of education and public affairs budget can ever hope to compete with those who are doing it free of charge. And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

Those are direct quotes, said to me in recent weeks - to my face. And the internet is full of similar sentiment. I am not exaggerating, even one iota. The anti-intellectual and anti-science & engineering movement is a gathering storm. They came after and undermined medical science and vaccinations; now they are coming after Space as well.

Don't believe me? Think I'm exaggerating? I wasn't exaggerating when I warned Apollo 11 celebrations in 2019 would come under Troll and Hacker attacks - they did. Bezos and Branson in space came under almost universal condemnation. Just watch the escalation of this when Starship and SLS fly in space.

Think I'm exaggerating? You just watch... :'( :( >:(
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Offline Welsh Dragon

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It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Offline MATTBLAK

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I agree strongly with you, in part - though that of course was not the subject of my post above. The kids of today are inheriting an environmental, ideological and economic mess, true. And whether they realize it or not; they have been allowed to be distracted by trivialities like 'celebrities', games, social media, popular trends etc. To an extent; the Western World has always been like that, but Corporations (I'll let the reader choose their own whipping boi) have weaponized distractions and manipulations. I'm 55; when I was a teen, I'm sure I wasn't much different, though I believe I was. I avoided most peer pressures.
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Offline Pitpen

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Boots on the moon would be an immense boost to the space popularity.
And starting from that you need to build up progressively higher challanges such as placing a sort of permanent lab on the moon and then move on to the next target (farther outposts). As of today space activities are stuck with scientific researches on ISS that of course is useful but cannot be interesting for the masses.
Anyway the future of space will be commercial or no future at all


Offline MATTBLAK

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Yes; boots on the Moon with 4K TV coverage. Maybe even 3D or virtual reality participation as well! I truly hope Yusaku Maezawa and the dearMoon project gets to happen. That should stir up some interest.
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Offline high road

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

Offline Lee Jay

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.

Offline high road

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Simple - go put telescopes on sidewalks and show space to them.

Telescopes didn’t do it for me

Agree. Not just because there's not much to see from a country which outline is visible from space at night, even though it's in the middle of an already well lit continent, but what you do see is always such a massive disappointment to the stuff professionals can do. Especially with VR technology, looking at (well, standing in) detailed images and being able to get instant information about it is great. Much better than fiddling with a telescope until you see something marginally better.

But that won't convince people that aren't already interested. In my experience, people of all ages are equally disinterested in space as they are in all other subjects of which the effects on their life are not immediately clear. Whether it's global politics, the environment, science, but any other subject as well. The best way to make it interesting in my experience is with anecdotes they can relate to. Actual examples: anyone with fond of the camera in their cellphone or laptop can thank astronomy for the development of the digital camera decades before such a thing had a commercial use. My aunt works in government and was bored at the mere mention of space but listened with rapt attention as I explained (with a bias for a juicier story) how the military influenced the design of space shuttle, because bickering government orgisations is what she knows. Kids especially like to fantasize about space and alien worlds, so they are the easiest ones to reach out to. The hardest part is to guesstimate people's existing knowledge and interests to connect to.

Offline high road

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.

I think it's age and nostalgia getting to you. Hardware is being delivered all the time.  Just not by people, as that's very inefficient. The last module to be docked to the ISS caused the most exitement in the existence of the station (for the wrong reasons) There are plenty of EVA's on ISS that are equally as exciting/boring as Shuttle EVA's. We might see fewer and fewer of them as technology matures.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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More younger people, like Haley Arceneaux, flying.

More opportunities to fly and do things in space.

Currently, the perception is that you have to be in your late 40's or early 50's to even have a shot at being an Astronaut.  There is also the fact that even if you are in the Astronaut Corps, your opportunities to fly are very limited.

Yes, the need for experience to bring to the table, along with certain long-term health risks, has driven the age aspect.  However, I feel that an injection of youth and energy into that side of things could pay great long-term dividends, especially in exciting the younger generations by saying 'look, there ARE opportunities for you... and they are now".

I think that the next important thing is going to be more flights like Inspiration4 and particularly, the Axiom station being launched.

Youth is excited by the opportunity to actively participate.
« Last Edit: 09/27/2021 02:02 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
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Offline Lee Jay

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.

I think it's age and nostalgia getting to you. Hardware is being delivered all the time.  Just not by people,

And that's the problem as far as excitement goes.

Quote
..as that's very inefficient. The last module to be docked to the ISS caused the most exitement in the existence of the station (for the wrong reasons) There are plenty of EVA's on ISS that are equally as exciting/boring as Shuttle EVA's. We might see fewer and fewer of them as technology matures.

But it's all spread out, not compacted all together into a single 10-15 day Shuttle mission.  From an interest and excitement point of view, that's a lot lower on the food chain.

Offline apollolanding

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I started my son young.  Astronaut space suit for Halloween, trips to Air & Space, KSC, Wallops and a half dozen other aerospace museums and airshows, LEGO sets of the LM and a scratch built Mars Rover, watching launches on the internet...  To this day I'll get a text from him, "did you see the launch today?"  Invest the time when they are young. 
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Offline su27k

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According to https://universumglobal.com/rankings/united-states-of-america/, SpaceX ranks #1 in most attractive employers to Engineering students in 2021, NASA ranks #3, Lockheed/Boeing/Northrop are all in top 10. SpaceX and NASA also rank pretty high (in top 15) by Computer Science and Natural Sciences students.

So it looks to me among those young people who are properly educated, space is already a hot topic, the question then is how to give more people a STEM education.

Offline scienceguy

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I started being interested in space when I saw Star Wars when I was 8.
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Offline Pipcard

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

Offline su27k

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Young people are fine, at least those who understands what's going on: MIT professor: Interest in space careers at an all-time high

Quote from: SpaceNews
MIT’s Department of Aeronautics & Astronautics graduate admissions program this past year saw a record number of applicants, “most of whom want to work in the space business,” said Daniel Hastings, professor and head of the department.

NASA’s exploration achievements and SpaceX’s high-profile space missions are driving enthusiasm at colleges and universities, Hastings said Sept. 28 at the Space Sector Market Conference in Cambridge, Mass.

“I can’t tell you how many students think that flying a helicopter on Mars is just a cool thing to do. They want to do things like that, it’s really attractive to a lot of students,” said Hastings.

Offline MATTBLAK

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
THIS!!
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Offline Welsh Dragon

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Offline MATTBLAK

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
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Offline Welsh Dragon

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
I would counter that most people here have an unrealistically positive and blinkered view that doesn't confirm to the real world. I wouldn't say saying most people don't care either way is negative at all. It's just the facts, and anything that isn't actively hostile is fine by me.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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My Dear Welsh Dragon; even though you are likely correct; you always seem to take the negative/glass half-empty tack. Or maybe you're just realistic...
I would counter that most people here have an unrealistically positive and blinkered view that doesn't confirm to the real world. I wouldn't say saying most people don't care either way is negative at all. It's just the facts, and anything that isn't actively hostile is fine by me.

This comment makes a ton of sense.  We, the space fans, have drunk the coolaid... and now we're standing around talking about how we would convince those who think like us!

This is one of the reasons for my comment above.

If you want excitement from the younger set, you must provide opportunities for them to be PART of it.

An 18 year old can join his local volunteer fire department and garner the accolades of being a hero.

Similarly, people in that age range can attend a law enforcement academy and become police officers, or they can join the military and go to sea with the Navy or learn to drive tanks in the Army.

In their early twenties, they can be officers in the Air Force and fly fighter jets.

Yet to be an Astronaut, the dream of many a young child, you do not even get looked at until your late 30's... at best.  You have a better chance of winning the lottery... with a lot less work.  You cannot plan a career about being a spaceflight participant, thus it remains the realm of pipe-dream.

Current Astronauts are 'twice chosen' as the term goes.  They have to not only commit to the vision and stick with the plan, but they have to survive a period of ridicule, where those that know them peripherally wonder why they're so committed to something that has no guarantee of ever panning out.  If they survive that and stay with it, make it to the qualifications and earn the right to apply, then there is still only a slim chance of actually becoming an Astronaut (Dr. Sian Proctor, for example, missed the cut at NASA by a slim margin).

More opportunities for younger people to be part of the program is KEY to getting younger people excited.

Period.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2021 02:02 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
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Offline Cherokee43v6

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I will also say that it is not a case of younger people not being interested.

Otherwise, why the popularity of:

Star Trek (all iterations)
Star Wars
Battlestar Galactica
The Expanse
Guardians of the Galaxy
Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato 2199/2202
Gundam
Cowboy Bebop

and the many other space based Sci Fi novels, comics, anime, movies and tv shows of the last couple decades?

But what do all these have in common?

Younger participants as part of the story.  The cast of characters are not just a bunch of folks in their 40's and 50's.  They spread from their late teens through the full range.  They are popular not only because of the entertainment value, but because the viewer can see themselves being within the story.

The desire is there.  It may be buried, hidden or ignored... but it is there.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2021 03:51 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
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Offline Pipcard

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And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.
Part of this is the notion that "billionaires intentionally conspire to abandon us on a dying planet as they escape to space." Not saying that I agree with this (nor do I believe in hero-worshipping billionaires), but that's their argument. The film Elysium has influenced this sentiment, although I haven't seen it yet.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2021 11:13 am by Pipcard »

Offline woods170

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Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Wrong.

I'm a volunteer for an obscure little space museum in the Netherlands. One of our activities is that we organize lectures about spaceflight and astronomy subjects. After each lecture there is time for questions and discussion.

Over the past 24 years I've seen many times where people in the audience came up with "we must abandon spaceflight and use the funds to fix poverty/famine/climate change".

This thing is NOT a view falsely held by space fans. It actually does exist in the general public and it's been in existence for a long time. The first comments of this nature from the general public go as far back as the Apollo program.

Offline darkenfast

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The day of the Columbia disaster, a local high school drama teacher told me that, while she was sorry those people had died, maybe now they'd stop wasting money on space and start spending it on education and social programs. I was around her a lot that year and she was not shy about telling her students what views they should have. 
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Offline JayWee

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Maybe people think space is waaay more expensive than it really is?

Offline su27k

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Maybe people think space is waaay more expensive than it really is?

They do:

Average American Guess: NASA Gets One-Fourth of US Budget

Americans Overestimate NASA's Share of US Budget

but that's only part of the problem.

Offline nicp

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Some well educated people absolutely do not care one jot about space or spaceflight.
An old friend of mine, an arts graduate who knew several languages and became an accountant is a case in point.
A very intelligent guy, but I once mentioned something about Jupiter and his response was something like "Oh, that's millions of miles away, it doesn't have any effect on the real world.". I believe he meant 'real effect on people'.

He just wasn't interested, and you can't force people to be interested. You can try to make it interesting with TV shows whether fictional or otherwise (and I would argue some of NASA's TV stuff is _deeply_ boring - was it in the movie 'Apollo 13', someone says something like "You make going to the Moon about as exciting as going to Pittsburgh.").

Make presentation of reality more fun, and more exciting (Tim Dodd and NASASpaceflight do a good job) - most other media do not.
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Offline Proponent

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Part of this is the notion that "billionaires intentionally conspire to abandon us on a dying planet as they escape to space." Not saying that I agree with this (nor do I believe in hero-worshipping billionaires), but that's their argument.

I think it would have been better if Branson and Bezos had not flown on the inaugural flights of their respective passenger-carrying vehicles.  Their doing so amplified the evil-billionaires theme about private spaceflight.

It's also a problem that so many people conflate anything related to space with NASA.  When they see billionaires flying to space, they assume the taxpayer is funding it.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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Some well educated people absolutely do not care one jot about space or spaceflight.
An old friend of mine, an arts graduate who knew several languages and became an accountant is a case in point.
A very intelligent guy, but I once mentioned something about Jupiter and his response was something like "Oh, that's millions of miles away, it doesn't have any effect on the real world.". I believe he meant 'real effect on people'.

And once again, we circle back to the argument that the lack of opportunity to participate breeds disinterest or even disdain.

Taxpayers do not want to pay for someone else to do something they won't be able to or does not provide a visible service to them.  For over 60 years, spaceflight has been an insular and highly restricted 'club' paid for by public money.  The taxpayer doesn't see the benefits first hand in a manner where they can directly tie them back to the expenditure.  Thus these perceptions, however inaccurate develop, persist and get passed on to the subsequent generations.

On the subject of Billionaires 'wasting money on space', I look the speaker in the eye and ask them directly.  "So you want to put 130,000 plus people out of good paying jobs so you can hand out a pittance to everyone?"
« Last Edit: 09/30/2021 01:55 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
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Offline Welsh Dragon

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Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Wrong.

I'm a volunteer for an obscure little space museum in the Netherlands. One of our activities is that we organize lectures about spaceflight and astronomy subjects. After each lecture there is time for questions and discussion.

Over the past 24 years I've seen many times where people in the audience came up with "we must abandon spaceflight and use the funds to fix poverty/famine/climate change".

This thing is NOT a view falsely held by space fans. It actually does exist in the general public and it's been in existence for a long time. The first comments of this nature from the general public go as far back as the Apollo program.
Kindly point out where I said it doesn't exist? If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see I said it's often falsely ascribed to people who don't hold that view. That's very different from saying it doesn't exist. It does, but it is far less pervasive that some people here make it out to be.

EDIT: I'm talking about the many people here who characterise anyone who has the vaguest critical thing to say about spaceflight, or is conscious about the environment as a luddite who wants to abolish all space activity. Yes they do exist, but not everyone who is critical is like that. Far far from it.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2021 04:34 pm by Welsh Dragon »

Offline JAFO

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Phraseology question: are we talking "supportive", and in "I approve of a space program.", or interested in getting into a STEM career, as in "Not only do I want to get into a STEM field, but I am smart enough to do it, and am willing to make the sacrifices to be in it?" From what I hear, SpaceX burns people out at a rate equaling NASA in the 1960s. I'd like to hope that's wrong.


It's because they have far more important things to worry about, like their insecure employment and housing situations, or the fact so many of them are being discriminated against, or the fact they're inheriting a screwed up climate. Young people are getting screwed over by the previous generations at every angle, space hardly matters then. Priorities, people.

Our small town just sold the Little League baseball complex (that was donated to the city by a local farmer decades ago) so a developer could build "affordable housing" in our real estate limited town. Affordable to the developer means 10 houses starting at $500,000 and going up, and the city bought off on it. Generations played ball, ran dogs, flew kites, and had picnics on that field, now a few people making far more than the average US citizen will be living on it.

It took 9 years of working 2 and sometimes 3 jobs while going to school to get into my career field, I had to choose between having a family or chasing my dream, a lot of people I knew dropped out, and I was lucky to be one of the ones who made it but was still stuck with years of high interest debt I finally paid off at 40. I don't want to think of what college costs now if someone wants to get into a STEM career field.
« Last Edit: 10/01/2021 04:46 am by JAFO »
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Offline Cherokee43v6

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On the subject of Billionaires 'wasting money on space', I look the speaker in the eye and ask them directly.  "So you want to put 130,000 plus people out of good paying jobs so you can hand out a pittance to everyone?"

Just a note.  I ran the calculation.  NASA's budget is just under 25 billion and there are just under 330 million US Citizens.

So cancelling NASA, you can hand every US citizen $75.75... Once.

I'm reminded of the old saying.  Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.  Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.  NASA/Space exploration is about learning to fish.
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Offline MATTBLAK

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Saturday Night Live has been doing 'Billionaire Space Race' sketches - eviscerating and denigrating the efforts of the 'Space Billionaires'. A lot of people watch this show and these items could certainly be interpreted as Anti-Space Propaganda, bought and paid for with network budgets and advertising revenue. The Genie is out of the bottle and the tide is turning. Even a space fan like Stephen Colbert has at times been harsh in his lampooning of Space ventures. When 'Space Billionaires' - not NASA - are poised to play the major role in the future of Space Exploration; everyone concerned would have a right to be worried about it's future... :(

« Last Edit: 10/04/2021 06:30 am by MATTBLAK »
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Offline Cherokee43v6

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Saturday Night Live has been doing 'Billionaire Space Race' sketches - eviscerating and denigrating the efforts of the 'Space Billionaires'. A lot of people watch this show and these items could certainly be interpreted as Anti-Space Propaganda, bought and paid for with network budgets and advertising revenue. The Genie is out of the bottle and the tide is turning. Even a space fan like Stephen Colbert has at times been harsh in his lampooning of Space ventures. When 'Space Billionaires' - not NASA - are poised to play the major role in the future of Space Exploration; everyone concerned would have a right to be worried about it's future... :(

The flip side of this could also be interpreted as:

The meek shall inherit the Earth...

                                 ...The rest of us are going to the stars.
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        ...I just pointed at it and laughed a little too loudly."

Offline dondar

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Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Wrong.

I'm a volunteer for an obscure little space museum in the Netherlands. One of our activities is that we organize lectures about spaceflight and astronomy subjects. After each lecture there is time for questions and discussion.

Over the past 24 years I've seen many times where people in the audience came up with "we must abandon spaceflight and use the funds to fix poverty/famine/climate change".

This thing is NOT a view falsely held by space fans. It actually does exist in the general public and it's been in existence for a long time. The first comments of this nature from the general public go as far back as the Apollo program.
The comments of this nature predate Apollo program (money are better spend on hunger etc.). It is a moral hummer thingy and is used when something needs to be destroyed. Such instruments were widely used of course in USA of XIX century (see rail road discussions), in Soviet Russia, Nazy Germany etc.
 
More of it such rhetoric is very firmly engraved in the school program. Such rhetoric coupled with the absence of any proper training of critical thinking is  very high quality "moral license" drug  and is very popular in your country (probably a bit less than in Germany though).
Can be easily combated with narrative breaking counter questions.
If it hunger- why not climate, if it climate why not hunger etc. Follow the same pseudo moral crap (because it's the only thing they "understand") and hummer back.
These people sit on moral silence drug (they want to be better than others, it is very important here) and don't feel comfortable on receiving end because it breaks their "flow". They don't have anything beside slogans. And don't understand logic (starting with the basic understanding of the economy of scales, and fundamental importance of diversity in everything).

Offline su27k

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Saturday Night Live has been doing 'Billionaire Space Race' sketches - eviscerating and denigrating the efforts of the 'Space Billionaires'. A lot of people watch this show and these items could certainly be interpreted as Anti-Space Propaganda, bought and paid for with network budgets and advertising revenue. The Genie is out of the bottle and the tide is turning. Even a space fan like Stephen Colbert has at times been harsh in his lampooning of Space ventures. When 'Space Billionaires' - not NASA - are poised to play the major role in the future of Space Exploration; everyone concerned would have a right to be worried about it's future... :(

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you (you're here), then they fight you (this is about to start), then you win"

Offline MATTBLAK

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From your mouth to Gods' ears, as it were...
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Offline ttle2

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Phraseology question: are we talking "supportive", and in "I approve of a space program.", or interested in getting into a STEM career, as in "Not only do I want to get into a STEM field, but I am smart enough to do it, and am willing to make the sacrifices to be in it?" From what I hear, SpaceX burns people out at a rate equaling NASA in the 1960s. I'd like to hope that's wrong.

Also, there's a big difference in being interested in STEM subjects, being interested in space (science), and being interested in space exploration (human spaceflight etc.). For example, even many professional astronomers are not interested in space exploration.

Offline laszlo

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My immediate response to this was that space exploration needs to be presented as a good vs. evil rivalry with vicarious participation, heroes and villains and actual conflict and competition, albeit non-violent, if you actually want mass support. If done correctly, the masses will voluntarily donate their money and support. In short, it needs to be run the same way as sporting franchises.

Look at the NFL (American National Football League for our metric-using friends). Half the NASA budget in 2020, at least that much again with gambling (legal and otherwise), a devoted army of fans that know everything about "their" team (even though virtually every team member was born and grew up somewhere else and looks nothing like them) and will spend ridiculous amounts of money on stuff with the team logo while giving up significant amounts of their increasingly scarce free time to sit in one place to watch the teams "play", all while swilling the rotten beer that the sponsors have been programming them to swill for decades (3 times the NASA budget just for the beer). Add in baseball and basketball in the US and the budget is staggering compared to NASA.

Apollo was such a success with the public because it hit many of those same points - American mom-and-apple-pie vs. Soviet godless communism, an actual competition and Death always waiting in the wings, spectacular visuals and home town heroes (plus Tang to drink). It didn't fall apart until after the US won the championship game. With no rematch scheduled, NASA had no reason to stay on the field yet refused to go home, so the fans lost interest (except for the hardcore ones that always want post-season games and no one likes those folks except the other fanatics).

What few sports-like features space exploration has now are more like English fox-hunting or polo than a mass entertainment sport. It's done by the wealthy, requires a position in life that most will never achieve and it's easier to focus on the animal-cruelty aspects than any mass enjoyment. Sound familiar?

So that's my prescription - rather than trying to inspire youngsters to go into STEM to participate in Humanity's Grand Adventure, dumb it all down and make it appeal to the fundamental instinctive need to show those miserable others who don't know their place that we're better than they are (pass the cheap beer).

We don't need scientists - we need Space Hooligans.

Offline Cherokee43v6

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My immediate response to this was that space exploration needs to be presented as a good vs. evil rivalry with vicarious participation, heroes and villains and actual conflict and competition, albeit non-violent, if you actually want mass support. If done correctly, the masses will voluntarily donate their money and support. In short, it needs to be run the same way as sporting franchises.

Look at the NFL (American National Football League for our metric-using friends). Half the NASA budget in 2020, at least that much again with gambling (legal and otherwise), a devoted army of fans that know everything about "their" team (even though virtually every team member was born and grew up somewhere else and looks nothing like them) and will spend ridiculous amounts of money on stuff with the team logo while giving up significant amounts of their increasingly scarce free time to sit in one place to watch the teams "play", all while swilling the rotten beer that the sponsors have been programming them to swill for decades (3 times the NASA budget just for the beer). Add in baseball and basketball in the US and the budget is staggering compared to NASA.

Apollo was such a success with the public because it hit many of those same points - American mom-and-apple-pie vs. Soviet godless communism, an actual competition and Death always waiting in the wings, spectacular visuals and home town heroes (plus Tang to drink). It didn't fall apart until after the US won the championship game. With no rematch scheduled, NASA had no reason to stay on the field yet refused to go home, so the fans lost interest (except for the hardcore ones that always want post-season games and no one likes those folks except the other fanatics).

What few sports-like features space exploration has now are more like English fox-hunting or polo than a mass entertainment sport. It's done by the wealthy, requires a position in life that most will never achieve and it's easier to focus on the animal-cruelty aspects than any mass enjoyment. Sound familiar?

So that's my prescription - rather than trying to inspire youngsters to go into STEM to participate in Humanity's Grand Adventure, dumb it all down and make it appeal to the fundamental instinctive need to show those miserable others who don't know their place that we're better than they are (pass the cheap beer).

We don't need scientists - we need Space Hooligans.

To use your sports analogy, every kid (at least in the US) has the opportunity to play sports.  If they have the talent and put in the work, they can make money doing it.  Not all of them are going to make the top leagues, but the actual opportunity is there.

All those fans?  Most of them played sports as a kid.

Does 'Space Camp' even exist any more?

(ps.  A couple years back, didn't SpaceX field a Soccer team?)
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Offline aquanaut99

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Short answer: you can’t.

We need to recognize that this is a generational thing. Space was the “in thing” for Boomers and Gen-Xers. Unsurprisingly, most of our forum members seem to belong to those generations. And our childhood has a huge influence on what we fan for later in life.

Boomers had Apollo. Gen-X had Shuttle back when it was cool. What did Millennials and Zoomers have?

Let me illustrate this with a personal example: I belong to that small cohort or “micro-generation” called “Xennials”. They are defined as being born around 1980 (or a few years before); their defining characteristic is that they had an analogue childhood but a digital adolescence.

During my childhood, I was a huge space fan. I didn‘t experience Apollo, but read about it in books. Shuttle was cool, it was new, it had wings and looked cool, and it was a symbol of US superiority over the “godless communists” (Cold War was still ongoing and we feared the bomb). Other than Saturday Morning Cartoons, building model spaceships were my main passion back then. And it got me interested in science, and I wanted to become an astronaut (like about half the boys in my class).

Then the 1990s came around. The Cold War was over. My voice broke and hormones started raging. Shuttle was no longer cool, because it never went anywhere besides some “rickety old piece of Russian space trash”. Other things were becoming more important (like girls). And we discovered the internet. A whole new world we couldn’t even imagine as a child. This was new, this was cool. Space was has-been. Nobody wanted to be an astronaut anymore, everyone wanted to work with computers and video games.

Then I saw Jurassic Park. And then I devoured the book. And then I read all of Michael Crichton. And I decided that biology and genetic engineering was cool and the future (this was the 1990s, this was the new “in-stuff” for the aspiring STEMs back then, half my high school class went into life sciences, nobody into aerospace). I didn’t care about space anymore and wouldn’t until much later, as a post-grad, when I got into astrobiology…

What about today? Space has to complete with game designers (who are often treated like superstars with fan clubs even though it’s a hellish and badly paid job). We have millions of cyber jobs. Biotechnology and genetic engineering is now available to almost everyone straight out of college. Compare that to space jobs, even among the so-called “new space”: they are but a tiny minority, and will never be able to compete in terms of numbers with cyber, biotech as well as green tech. And, to be honest, space has totally lost the high-tech appeal, too. Most of our current space tech is little different from what we had in the 1960s (yes, even SpaceX). Back then, space was high-tech, but without any competition. Today, the competition has several laps advance and is still speeding up, while space is still slow and out of breath, even compared to where it was 50 years ago.

The race is over.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2021 06:13 pm by aquanaut99 »

Offline Orbiter

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Short answer: you can’t.

We need to recognize that this is a generational thing. Space was the “in thing” for Boomers and Gen-Xers. Unsurprisingly, most of our forum members seem to belong to those generations. And our childhood has a huge influence on what we fan for later in life.

....

The race is over.

I'm a millennial (born in mid-90s) and I think you underestimate how popular space is for our generation and overestimate how popular it was for yours.

We've watched incredible things in our lifetimes too: reusable rockets, commercial space exploration, Starship, mission to Pluto, Curiosity and Perseverance, and soon we'll be watching humans land on the Moon with Artemis. I'd argue the times we're living in now are the most exciting since the 60s. We see space everywhere: YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, et cetera.
Plenty of us are excited about space, just the medium in which we express our excitement has changed.

There's no trick to get people excited about space exploration. It's pretty simple: explore space, and the excitement will follow IMO.
« Last Edit: 10/06/2021 01:27 am by Orbiter »
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Offline ThereIWas3

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It's also a problem that so many people conflate anything related to space with NASA.

I look at the name of this forum and wonder how widespread that idea is.  :)

Apollo was addressing a political problem.  That we incidentally found evidence in support of the Earth/Moon origin theory was a bonus.  There was not, and still is not, any pressing NATIONAL need for going to the Moon,  or anywhere else, that outweighs the more immediate problems that young people are facing.

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Short answer: you can’t.

We need to recognize that this is a generational thing. Space was the “in thing” for Boomers and Gen-Xers. Unsurprisingly, most of our forum members seem to belong to those generations. And our childhood has a huge influence on what we fan for later in life.

Boomers had Apollo. Gen-X had Shuttle back when it was cool. What did Millennials and Zoomers have?
I question your premise that space was popular then, at least after the whole moon race appendage waving competition was over (Gen-X in particular). I suspect your recollection is coloured by your own biases and the majority of people then couldn't care less, exactly the same now. In fact, I would counter that space now (with SpaceX) is far more exciting than it was in the shuttle era when - for the casual viewer - absolutely nothing new happened and the coverage was terrible.

Offline dondar

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about "it's all lost"....
"No, it is not".

I see a lot of very smart people who are interested in new things (space included)  around.
 The latest generation of kids (kids who are 16-18) are amazing. The only problem this generation has is "clip"  mentality(we were calling it "MTV brainwash" 25 years ago), i.e. some difficulty to maintain focus for any considerable time. But it's very easily fixable. And these kids are quick, significantly quicker we were.

because myself I've "downshifted", I see around a lot of very well educated people who downshifted and prefer to do simple physical work, the whole generation of office space fans who are invisible otherwise. The problem lies not in "the first interest", "importance", "generations" or "popularity" of anything. The problem lies in the absence of place to land.

 All smart people while being extremely heterogeneous group have one thing in common. They are harder (I haven't wrote hard here!) to control and lie to.
The problem lies in absolutely retarded formalist HR policies, in mind boggling management choices and depressive status quo. There is no good place to work and there wasn't for very long time.

There're plenty of young people who would choose engineering=>space route if they were shown that there is a good chance to satisfy curiosity and achieve something. But so far the only places in USA are SpaceX and Caltech .... and nothing in Europe.
"It ain't much".

You won't satisfy curious people with Powerpoint projects. You will break their will.

Offline Star One

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It is a valid question. In a broader context I would change it to "how to make people/children interested in tomorrow instead of living the immediate gratification life just in the today?".

While I have no great answer, my simple thinking would be two-fold. Basically, less CableTV and less Fa[ck]ebook time and more books to read which encourages concentration, dreams and time commitment to reach the end. With endings that inspire and lead to a realization "Wow, I never though about that!" and many questions to their peers and parents. From Jules Verne "to the moon" to, I don't know, "Harry Potter" or even "Moving Mars". 

For the older ones, plenty of reading material in the Hard science fiction books thread.

Good luck.
Cable TV is dying a death on its own thanks to streaming.

Speaking more generally the Inspiration4 documentary on Netflix shows it’s possible to interest the general public in space.

I think half the problem is NASA’s isn’t considered cool Space X is. They have high and positive brand recognition amongst the public. If I want to make use of a spaceflight example on a general forum I’ll always use Space X not NASA just because people are more likely to get the reference.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2021 07:51 pm by Star One »

Offline Star One

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One way you can increase interest in space as a natural progression; try find a way to stamp out the constant, 24/7 barrage of conspiracy theories, flat earthers and 'space isn't even real' imbeciles who pollute social media, comments sections on news and science websites, YouTube etc. Their barrage is determined and relentless and they *ARE* getting converts and winning hearts and minds, every day. There are not many people actually doing it; but they are doing it for free, with an almost religious zeal. No amount of education and public affairs budget can ever hope to compete with those who are doing it free of charge. And the tack of anti-space people has changed recently: they are now using the tactic of "Billionaires and Space Billionaires are Evil and they're wasting money and taking food from the mouths of those in poverty". And "All those rocket launches are ruining the environment!!"

Those are direct quotes, said to me in recent weeks - to my face. And the internet is full of similar sentiment. I am not exaggerating, even one iota. The anti-intellectual and anti-science & engineering movement is a gathering storm. They came after and undermined medical science and vaccinations; now they are coming after Space as well.

Don't believe me? Think I'm exaggerating? I wasn't exaggerating when I warned Apollo 11 celebrations in 2019 would come under Troll and Hacker attacks - they did. Bezos and Branson in space came under almost universal condemnation. Just watch the escalation of this when Starship and SLS fly in space.

Think I'm exaggerating? You just watch... :'( :( >:(
Nothing will happen as if it did the bottom lines of the hosting companies would be hurt. It pays not to do too much about nonsense.

Offline Star One

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I'll tell you what killed it for me - the gap between Apollo and Shuttle. Despite an intense interest, I went into another industry for that reason. And the gap we're in right now (post Shuttle) happened at the same time in my kids' lives.  And, no, commercial crew cycling to the ISS doesn't count. It's just a taxi service and just as exciting.

So, have exciting things going on that involve people in space. Get rid of the damned gaps!

What gap are we still in then? Either the return of the taxi service counts as the end of the gap, or Space Shuttle was part of the gap.

We're in a boom in space startups that has been building up for years now.

The Space Shuttle flights often involved a high-density of EVAs performed by the Shuttle astronauts, the delivery of hardware beyond just people, or at least the delivery and berthing of an MPLM, followed by a Shuttle landing at KSC.  A Dragon launch with cargo or 4 long-term ISS crew members followed by an ocean splashdown is like watching paint dry by comparison.

For me, space as it is right now is as boring as it has been during my lifetime.
For me it’s more interesting and inspiring than it has been for ages be it in scientific probes or private space missions like Inspiration4 with the great accompanying documentary. That’s space coverage done right.

Offline Star One

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Of course, those are legitimate concerns. But what's annoying is the either-or / false dichotomy proposition that space travel must be abandoned completely to fix poverty or the environment.

I think that's a view more commonly (and falsely) ascribed to people by space fans than actually held by people. Most of the general public couldn't care less either way.

Wrong.

I'm a volunteer for an obscure little space museum in the Netherlands. One of our activities is that we organize lectures about spaceflight and astronomy subjects. After each lecture there is time for questions and discussion.

Over the past 24 years I've seen many times where people in the audience came up with "we must abandon spaceflight and use the funds to fix poverty/famine/climate change".

This thing is NOT a view falsely held by space fans. It actually does exist in the general public and it's been in existence for a long time. The first comments of this nature from the general public go as far back as the Apollo program.
It’s not hard to find protest songs and even poems of the time against the program.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2021 08:05 pm by Star One »

Offline JackWhite

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Everything is already done in countries where there are technologies and demands on astronauts (USA, China, Russia etc.). Kids and especially young people are not much different from adult people out there - if they see the potential place where they can realize their potential and talents, they will go this way no matter what. So we as parents or adults just can help these talents to find their way. That's it :)

Offline Lar

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Generally thoughtful and polite discussion ... thanks for that, folks!

A caution, careful to stay out of politics. I saw in a very early post a call for raising taxes on the wealthy. That's politics. Thanks for not chasing that very far, everyone.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Cherokee43v6

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With Shatner flying on New Shepard 18 tomorrow, we as space fans need to be ready to discuss the positives of space flight with anyone and everyone.  We need to be ready to defend the idea that the expenditure of funds to advance humanity in that direction is worth it.

We need to make sure that people understand that the money spent to do these things is not wasted.  It pays for people to do the work necessary to make it happen and that we would far rather see Bezos, Branson and Musk spending their billions to do this instead of corporations like Apple who sit on billions in cash and do nothing with it.

We need to make sure people understand that yes, it is currently expensive and you pretty much have to be a millionaire to afford to do this... NOW...  But that the mere fact that a private person can now buy a ticket for a suborbital flight or even orbital flight is a major step forward toward the day when the everyman can do the same.

Every advancement has followed this pattern.  Airbags started as an expensive option on cars that only the wealthy could initially afford.  Now they're required equipment on even the most basic model, because technology advancement and scale of production reduced their expense to that point.

We have to make clear that we are still at the beginning of this journey, and the road goes on.
« Last Edit: 10/12/2021 03:30 pm by Cherokee43v6 »
"I didn't open the can of worms...
        ...I just pointed at it and laughed a little too loudly."

Offline Eric Hedman

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While it would be nice to have more young people interested in and supporting space exploration, I think we're doing a pretty good job already.  We'll never have everybody interested.  We're in a golden age of exploration now.  The growth in capabilities right now is mind boggling compared to the decades after Apollo.  With more and more being done through the private sector, I think space activities including expansion into deeper space is moving along fine and will become more self sustaining.  I would like it to be moving faster.  But it is moving forward on many fronts better than I've seen in a long time.

Offline Lariliss

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For this answer I am inspired by my own experience as a kid and as a parent.

All the things to know (books, movies, maths, physics) should come at the time when a brain is ready to suck and apprehend them.
But space exploration is a special case, it umbrellas all the knowledge and development.
1. It strikes a 5-year old with impossible heights, beauty and mystery. We are intrinsically pulled for exploration.
2. I can see a lot of educational programs including the Solar system learning and going further for the most known and important missions. School education is the key to fostering interests. At the same time in higher schools the ways of continuing the internships should be explained and jobs suggestions.
3. Show the legacy examples of human heroes, who explored space.
There are good examples, with NASA supporting educational events, when every teenager can make a 3D-printed rocket and send it dozens fit high.
4. Space exploration gives us the best technologies that are intertwined with all industries, with the Earth surveillance, communication, education, and medicine. Showing the whole picture is a benefit, I believe.

Show them that there is no boundaries to go forth.
Number, Letter, Note: Know, Think, Dream

 

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