Author Topic: USAF EELV/NSSL Phase 2 Launch Service Procurement (Winners Announced)  (Read 169053 times)

Offline jongoff

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I just added a poll in the polls section to see who people currently think will be selected (or if the solicitation will get significantly changed due to the bid protest or congressional lobbying): https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48797.0

I figured it would be good to do a poll and have the speculation about winners be in that thread, and leave this thread for news and discussion.

~Jon

Offline edkyle99

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If Vulcan, the main contractors would be ULA, Blue Origin, Northrop Grumman, Aerojet Rocketdyne, and RUAG.

If Falcon 9/Heavy, the contractor is SpaceX, with maybe RUAG offering Heavy fairings.

If New Glenn, Blue Origin.

If Omega, Northrop Grumman and Aerojet Rocketdyne.

If the Pentagon wants to keep RL-10 and/or Northrop Grumman solids, it will need to pick either Vulcan or Omega or both.

If the Pentagon wants to lose all of the legacy costs and hope the new guys will play cheaper, then Falcon/New Glenn. 

Splitting the difference seems likely to me.  One legacy, one new space.  One Red State, one Blue State.  Etc.  So, obviously the two all-American options, Omega and New Glenn!  :)

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 08/13/2019 03:15 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline envy887

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If Vulcan, the main contractors would be ULA, Blue Origin, Northrop Grumman, Aerojet Rocketdyne, and RUAG.

If Falcon 9/Heavy, the contractor is SpaceX, with maybe RUAG offering Heavy fairings.

If New Glenn, Blue Origin.

If Omega, Northrop Grumman and Aerojet Rocketdyne.

If the Pentagon wants to keep RL-10 and/or Northrop Grumman solids, it will need to pick either Vulcan or Omega or both.

If the Pentagon wants to lose all of the legacy costs and hope the new guys will play cheaper, then Falcon/New Glenn. 

Splitting the difference seems likely to me.  One legacy, one new space.  One Red State, one Blue State.  Etc.  So, obviously the two all-American options, Omega and New Glenn!  :)

 - Ed Kyle

How are Vulcan and Falcon not all-American? Even if they use RUAG fairings, the fairings would be built in the US and the IP owned by US companies.

Offline spacenut

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Yes, Vulcan would be built in a Red state.  Falcon in a Blue state.  No issues there. 

I for one, don't believe Vulcan or New Glenn will fly sooner than OmegA.  Falcon/Falcon Heavy is already flying. 

Starship might be ready sometime in 2021 at the rate they are moving doing testing.  Raptor is working.  Stainless steel rocket seems simple enough.  SpaceX has said they can make the Starship upper stage expendible without legs and heat tiles, using only 3 Raptor engines.  Superheavy booster shouldn't be a problem as they already have booster experience. 

We don't know if BE-4 is actually finished testing and when will manufacturing begin of this engine. 

New Glenn not only has to fly, but being reusable Blue has to get their landing down on a moving ship.  May be some crashes.  New Glenn may have some start up hickups.  An explosion or two, crashes, and the second stage has not been tested either. 

Vulcan goes on Atlas heritage and avionics.  Should be less hickups.  BE-4 is still the long pole here also. 

OmegA will use proven solids, however a three stage rocket.  This shouldn't take long to get up and running, however they recently had a broken engine nozzle issue.  Upper stage can be a Centaur like Atlas V uses. 

Offline TrevorMonty

Omega will be using total new hydrolox upper stage, something NGIS doesn't have any experience with. RL10 and avionics maybe flight proven but rest of components will be new.

NG US will be new including engines even if they are based on BE3 from NS. I expect Blue use as may of flight proven systems eg valves etc from NS. Should be lower risk than Omega US but lot higher risk than Centuar V.

I would say FH with its 3 flights a lower risk option. Separate of boosters is still area of risk. Rest of vehicle is F9 with its good flight history.

Comes down to ULA and SpaceX with BE4 engines still big unknown. BE4 will have benefit of building flight history on two LVs at same time. Every NG flight is equivalent of 3.5 Vulcan flights.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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When will the two providers be selected?
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline edkyle99

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When will the two providers be selected?
Spring of 2020.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline russianhalo117

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Omega will be using total new hydrolox upper stage, something NGIS doesn't have any experience with. RL10 and avionics maybe flight proven but rest of components will be new.

NG US will be new including engines even if they are based on BE3 from NS. I expect Blue use as may of flight proven systems eg valves etc from NS. Should be lower risk than Omega US but lot higher risk than Centuar V.

I would say FH with its 3 flights a lower risk option. Separate of boosters is still area of risk. Rest of vehicle is F9 with its good flight history.

Comes down to ULA and SpaceX with BE4 engines still big unknown. BE4 will have benefit of building flight history on two LVs at same time. Every NG flight is equivalent of 3.5 Vulcan flights.
TRW became NGAS which was transferred to NGIS upon the OATK merger. TRW also owned The Aerospace Corporation. TRW's Corporations were contracted to work on other rockets. So they have liquid and semi cryogenic stage building experience well into the past as well as liquid engine experience. Whether or not the maintained that knowledge is unknown.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
BRUNO: NATIONAL SECURITY LAUNCH MARKET ONLY BIG ENOUGH FOR TWO
By Marcia Smith | Posted: October 23, 2019 11:56 pm ET | Last Updated: October 24, 2019 12:28 am ET

United Launch Alliance (ULA) President Tory Bruno insisted today that the foreseeable national security launch market is only big enough to support two launch service providers, not three as some are advocating. Expanding the pool to three would be a “giant mistake” imperiling the financial viability of all of them.

https://spacepolicyonline.com/news/bruno-national-security-launch-market-only-big-enough-for-two/

Offline su27k

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For Air Force launch competition, ULA will offer Vulcan and Atlas, but not Delta

Quote
Bruno said ULA is confident that Vulcan will be ready to fly Category C payloads by 2023, approximately one year before the last scheduled flight of the Delta 4 Heavy.

Also

Quote
SpaceX President and COO Gwynne Shotwell said Oct. 22 that the company will be ready to compete for Category C missions if it wins one of the two slots in Phase 2.

The Falcon Heavy will be able to do these missions, she said. “We don’t need more performance, we don’t need heavier rockets, we don’t need more margin. The only thing that stands between us and our ability to fly those is an extended fairing, which is not hard,” Shotwell said. The company is looking to either buy a fairing from an outside vendor or develop its own. “We still have to see what the right approach is,” she said.

Offline gongora

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https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1196541212808941568
Quote
Wow. Blue Origin’s protest of the Air Force national security launch contract sustained by the GAO.

Offline envy887

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GAO sustained part of Blue's protest, but not all. Still, a good definition of how "best value" is determined seems important to getting the best offer from the bidders.

Offline su27k

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Specifically, Blue Origin has 3 complaints based on https://spacenews.com/blue-origin-files-protest-over-flawed-air-force-launch-procurement/

Quote
1. Contains unclear and ambiguous selection criteria. The Air Force laid out a list of weighting factors, and it will mix and match bidders’ offerings and pick two. The Air Force says it will select any combination of those providers that provide best value. Blue Origin argues that there is no clarity on what best value is, and claims that many of the government’s technical requirements are too vague to accurately price.

2. Discriminates against new competitors by asking bidders to offer a backup launch vehicle. Blue Origin argues that provision favors incumbents as new entrant companies would not have a backup option. Blue Origin is developing the New Glenn heavy-lift rocket for the commercial and governments markets.

3. Unnecessarily restricts competition by awarding exclusive five-year contracts to only two providers. The company contends this will perpetuate a market duopoly in national security space launch, causing higher launch prices and a missed opportunity to capitalize on industry innovation.

Only the 1st one is sustained by GAO, the others are rejected.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Air Force changes how it buys rockets after Blue Origin protest, but it may not move the needle for Bezos
PUBLISHED THU, NOV 21 20194:00 PM EST
Michael Sheetz
@THESHEETZTWEETZ

KEY POINTS

Jeff Bezos’ company Blue Origin is pitted against SpaceX, Northrop Grumman and United Launch Alliance in trying to win contracts to fly military spacecraft under the U.S. Air Force’s lucrative Launch Service Procurement (LSP) program.

Air Force acquisition lead Will Roper said in a statement it will remove the phrase “when combined” from its criteria after the Government Accountability Office sustained Blue Origin’s protest

Jefferies analyst Greg Konrad told CNBC the military branch’s change is unlikely to move the needle for Blue Origin’s chances at winning a contract with its New Glenn rocket.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/air-force-changing-lsp-criteria-after-bezos-blue-origin-protest.html

Offline su27k

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GAO decision report is out: https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/702867.pdf

Nothing too interesting in there. Blue tried to convince GAO that Phase 2 LSA award was delayed because of lobbying from Aerojet Rocketdyne (the report didn't name AR, but from the context it pretty much has to be AR), but didn't provide any proof.

Also I didn't know the RFP is structured such that AF can claim any excess performance of the LV, including those used for recovery, I can see why this is a big problem for Blue.


Offline gongora

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[Space News] Air Force soon to release revised launch solicitation in response to GAO’s ruling

Updated RFP expected by end of year, competitors can submit revised bids (but may not really have a reason to change them), selection still expected Q3 2020.

Offline TorenAltair

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Got a weird idea today..
Would it be allowed for Blue Origin to bid the Atlas V (or Vulcan) rocket and switch to their New Glenn once it is ready and certified?

Offline gongora

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Got a weird idea today..
Would it be allowed for Blue Origin to bid the Atlas V (or Vulcan) rocket and switch to their New Glenn once it is ready and certified?

They could, but need to give the pricing for everything in advance, and ULA would have to agree to it.  If they do something like bid New Glenn with Atlas V as a backup then they would only get paid for the New Glenn pricing, even if the Atlas V is more expensive.  (Atlas V has a limited number of engines left they can use without a law getting changed, but there are enough for a couple more years of NSSL flights.)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Independent study of launch market says U.S. Air Force should support three domestic providers
by Sandra Erwin — January 12, 2020

In response to concerns about its launch procurement strategy, the Air Force asked RAND to conduct an analysis of the heavy lift launch market.

WASHINGTON — An independent study of the space launch market commissioned by the U.S. Air Force suggests the service should support three providers in the short term to ensure it has access to space over the next decade.

https://spacenews.com/independent-study-of-launch-market-says-u-s-air-force-should-support-three-domestic-providers/
« Last Edit: 01/13/2020 04:02 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Markstark

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