Author Topic: SpaceX Crewed Dragon Circumlunar Mission  (Read 504524 times)

Offline bad_astra

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #500 on: 03/01/2017 02:33 pm »
I would think that part of the package will be some deep familiarization with the craft anyway. Also I think that there WILL be some manual controls like attitude control. And in a pinch you also WILL want to be able to assure that the antenna points the right way to keep up communications. Note that neither SpaceX nor Musk have even touched the word "tourist" here.

I definitely would want to be able to do some troubleshooting, rebooting computers and so on. I doubt very much that anyone going for that would be happy with just being strapped in and being told to enjoy the ride.


Troubleshooting means there is trouble. No one sane actively WANTS trouble on a flight like this. No one is going to need anyone to "turn it off and on again," either. Except for a few brief moments the Dragon will be in contact of Earth with very little delay time.

In any case, you're not going to be a red-shirt running around the warp core with a wrench or writing miracle code to fix something on the way out. "MoonDragon this is ground control. Funny thing! We forgot to write a landing engine sequence program. Imagine that? Well, in the pocket of your suit you'll find a series of notecards called 'Python for Novices' also, did you bring a leatherman tool?"

If you want trouble, go kayaking.
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 02:34 pm by bad_astra »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #501 on: 03/01/2017 02:47 pm »
My opinion (of course)
The discussions about there not being enough demand for Falcon Heavy launches have now been put to rest.  Plus, the business model has expanded in the near term to include private spaceflight for significant(?) profit. It also brings the re-use model into focus since this mission is not affordable without reuse.

Increasing the flight rate is so key to making reuse affordable. 

I don't understand the debate on tourist versus astronaut.  For the love of Pete, they'll be flying around the moon!! 

For the first time since December 1972 someone has a realistic goal of going beyond low earth orbit.  Enjoy it.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline Surfdaddy

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #502 on: 03/01/2017 02:48 pm »

So anyone on board one of these things is a passenger (I think the word tourist is inappropriate), whether they are paid by SpaceX to be there or have paid to be there.


A passenger that has no specific destination and is along for the ride and sightseeing is a tourist.

Actually,

Tourist:  a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.

Astronaut and tourist are not mutually exclusive.

Offline Elvis in Space

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #503 on: 03/01/2017 02:56 pm »
Maybe this ultimately gets it's own thread, maybe I've missed the discussion elsewhere, but what will these passengers do during the trip? They are unlikely to be scientists so not much heavy science going on. It's an automated spacecraft so they won't have near the workload of an Apollo flight in that regard. There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Just wondering what they might actually do.
Cheeseburgers on Mars!

Offline acsawdey

Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #504 on: 03/01/2017 02:58 pm »
If all these 'tourists' get out of it is a week of weightlessness, and peering at the Moon through the porthole, I think it would not be worth the money.  Now, if they are trained to operate experiments located in the trunk it gets more interesting.  And if there are cameras back there they would get a better view on their internal screens (Dragon 2 has great displays) than looking through a smudged window.

So, the question I have is: what is the largest telescope you could fit into Dragon 2's trunk? Point that at the back side of the moon and pipe the sensor data to the internal displays.

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #505 on: 03/01/2017 03:01 pm »
Maybe this ultimately gets it's own thread, maybe I've missed the discussion elsewhere, but what will these passengers do during the trip? They are unlikely to be scientists so not much heavy science going on. It's an automated spacecraft so they won't have near the workload of an Apollo flight in that regard. There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Just wondering what they might actually do.

To answer this question one would really need to know what "they know each other" means. Are they a couple? Is this a spectacular honeymoon cruise?
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 03:02 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #506 on: 03/01/2017 03:06 pm »
What do you get out of climbing Everest?  Hardship, danger and a few great views if the weather allows you to look at them.  But the real point is to say you've done it.  And the first participants also get a place in the history book - uh - websites.  So I wouldn't be asking about what they can do, that's not likely to be the point.  Maybe what they will do is live-tweet the whole thing for public engagement, and then go on the lecture circuit or make a documentary about it, being inspirational etc.  Trying to find 'science' to do is probably not very important.

Note that I wouldn't be saying that about a future landing mission, where even amateurs can collect samples for scientific analysis back on Earth.

Online meberbs

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #507 on: 03/01/2017 03:12 pm »
Eric Berger has a good piece on what parts of NASA may really be thinking about yesterday's announcement: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/02/if-you-think-nasa-is-frustrated-with-spacex-youre-probably-right/

Edit: clarified

I find that to be a rather negative article by Eric Berger, to be honest. At one point, in support of his overall argument,  he quotes a certain Ms. Dittmar, who provides a negative view on Musk's endeavours. Only to reveal that Ms. Dittmar "serves as executive director of the Coalition for Deep Space Exploration, the organization formed by the principal contractors behind NASA's SLS rocket and Orion spacecraft".

Well shock and horror, the contractors building the SLS have bad things to say about SpaceX. What a surprise.

The general gist of it seems to be that NASA is bending over backwards for SpaceX despite SpaceX's  commercial crew program slipping to 2018. No mention is made, however, of the fact that 2018 is still a year earlier than Boeing - a long established "old Space" company - can produce their version of a commercial crew vehicle.

I think you are being too harsh on Eric Berger here. He is not reporting on his opinions on this, but the opinion of NASA, and the attitudes and reasoning he described in the article certainly represent the feelings of at least some at NASA. His "argument" as you put it, is not that NASA shouldn't support SpaceX in this, it is that there are those in leadership at NASA that don't like this even though this kind of private use was part of the justification for how they structured commercial crew. He posted a response in the comments that helps clarify this:

Quote from: Eric Berger
There are things said publicly by NASA, and there are things said privately. I am fortunate to have some pretty good contacts high in NASA's administration who speak to me privately. They are not amused or enthused by this.

I will agree with you that a lot of younger engineers at NASA are very rah-rah when it comes to SpaceX. They see what the company is doing, and they love it. But, for the most part, they don't make the decisions.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #508 on: 03/01/2017 03:21 pm »
Are they hams? Could be the greatest DX-pedition in history. :)
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Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #509 on: 03/01/2017 03:23 pm »
Isn't it more likely two wealthy people were shopping for a Moon trip ASAP, and went to NASA first, and were told it is not possible or affordable (anytime soon), and then they went to SpaceX, who said yes.

I don't understand why NASA would be butt hurt over a private person paying his/her own money to SpaceX for a trip to LEO, Lunar, or Mars.
"And now the Sun will fade, All we are is all we made." Breaking Benjamin

Offline DanielW

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #510 on: 03/01/2017 03:24 pm »
I am curious what they will do with the docking ring. Will they leave it to keep commonality with dragon 2 and allow for far-fetched rescue scenarios? Or, will they replace it with a lighter boilerplate or even a nice big window?

Offline Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #511 on: 03/01/2017 03:31 pm »
NASA could point out that this flight is a success in both Commercial Cargo and Commercial Crew. Win for NASA. SX was literally saved from bankruptcy by that first contract. Now SX is strong enough to go the the Moon!

Offline jtrame

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #512 on: 03/01/2017 03:31 pm »
Are they hams? Could be the greatest DX-pedition in history. :)

QSL.  It might take a good size array like the moon bouncers use to reach them.  At least on VHF - UHF.

Offline Mongo62

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #513 on: 03/01/2017 04:02 pm »
There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?

Offline rory

Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #514 on: 03/01/2017 04:03 pm »
There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?

SpaceX suits are for IVA, not EVA.

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #515 on: 03/01/2017 04:05 pm »
There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?

D2 has no airlock, AFAIK.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Mongo62

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #516 on: 03/01/2017 04:35 pm »
There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?

Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?

D2 has no airlock, AFAIK.

Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.

Offline vt_hokie

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #517 on: 03/01/2017 04:39 pm »
What are the implications of a catastrophic failure for commercial crew, if any?  Certainly this is additional risk - will it be seen as an Everest climb that won't slow down parallel climbs on other mountains if it goes the way Everest climbs sometimes do?

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #518 on: 03/01/2017 04:39 pm »

Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.

a. What pumps?  Never been done in space before.
b.  Not everything in the cabin is compatible with a vacuum.
c.  Again, the suits are not EVA suits.

Offline Negan

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Re: SpaceX Crewed Circumlunar Mission - 2018
« Reply #519 on: 03/01/2017 04:47 pm »

Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.

a. What pumps?  Never been done in space before.
b.  Not everything in the cabin is compatible with a vacuum.
c.  Again, the suits are not EVA suits.

How did Gemini do it?

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