Author Topic: Fusion with space related aspects thread  (Read 1113081 times)

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2960 on: 04/26/2018 01:38 pm »
It seems the US is going to corner the market on this technology. As it looks like Europe has gone up a massively expensive blind alley.
The Chinese are pushing ahead too, with lots of funding. But they are less innovative and tend to stick with Tokamaks, from what I have seen. Nevertheless, they might have a working reactor before ITER is even turned on for the first time.

I am so depressed by what’s happened in Europe with Fusion research it feels like the whole thing has been mired in layers of red tape for years on end, that’s ended up costing huge amounts of time and money for very little result.

European mega projects do seem to weigh heavily towards being job projects don't they?...
I refer you to SLS. Pot, meet kettle.

Offline jongoff

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2961 on: 04/28/2018 01:18 am »
It seems the US is going to corner the market on this technology. As it looks like Europe has gone up a massively expensive blind alley.
The Chinese are pushing ahead too, with lots of funding. But they are less innovative and tend to stick with Tokamaks, from what I have seen. Nevertheless, they might have a working reactor before ITER is even turned on for the first time.

I am so depressed by what’s happened in Europe with Fusion research it feels like the whole thing has been mired in layers of red tape for years on end, that’s ended up costing huge amounts of time and money for very little result.

European mega projects do seem to weigh heavily towards being job projects don't they?...

This is different from US government-funded megaprojects how?

~Jon

Offline aceshigh

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2962 on: 04/30/2018 03:25 am »
Just to be clear the thing he refers to as "Eater" is actually ITER?
The acronym was constructed to spell out the latin word "iter" which means procedure or course or "the way" so EE-ter not AYE-ter
Oh. I always pronounced it iter as in "Iterate," which seemed appropriate, being the follow on from JET, the Joint European Torus.

Well, iterate  should be pronounced as eeterate. Blame the Great vowel shift of English language, basically messing with bowl sounds in English

Offline Star One

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2963 on: 06/26/2018 09:15 am »
Wendelstein 7-X achieves world record for fusion product

https://m.phys.org/news/2018-06-wendelstein-x-world.html

For those interested here is the related paper in Nature.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-018-0141-9

Offline Asteroza

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2964 on: 06/27/2018 12:17 am »
Wendelstein 7-X achieves world record for fusion product

https://m.phys.org/news/2018-06-wendelstein-x-world.html

For those interested here is the related paper in Nature.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-018-0141-9

So nobody gets confused, this is NOT the Polywell WB-7 or WB-7.1

Offline sanman

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2965 on: 09/13/2018 04:43 am »
Optimal magnetic fields for suppressing tokamak instabilities discovered:

https://www.pppl.gov/news/2018/09/discovered-optimal-magnetic-fields-suppressing-instabilities-tokamaks

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2966 on: 09/13/2018 05:13 am »
Optimal magnetic fields for suppressing tokamak instabilities discovered:

https://www.pppl.gov/news/2018/09/discovered-optimal-magnetic-fields-suppressing-instabilities-tokamaks

What problems remain unresolved for a dynamically stable fusion plasma?

Offline Star One

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2967 on: 01/10/2019 10:56 pm »
SCIENTISTS DISCOVERED A NEW WAY TO STABILIZE FUSION REACTIONS

Quote
The work, described in a new paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters, deals with a type of structure in plasma that researchers call a “magnetic island.” Magnetic islands can cause complex plasma disruptions capable of shutting down fusion experiments and even damaging reactors.

The researchers found that by bombarding plasma with radio-frequency waves while creating small fluctuations in its temperature, they could stabilize the material and prevent the dangerous magnetic islands from forming.

Offline sanman

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2968 on: 01/11/2019 01:57 pm »
Optimal magnetic fields for suppressing tokamak instabilities discovered:

https://www.pppl.gov/news/2018/09/discovered-optimal-magnetic-fields-suppressing-instabilities-tokamaks

SCIENTISTS DISCOVERED A NEW WAY TO STABILIZE FUSION REACTIONS

Quote
The work, described in a new paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters, deals with a type of structure in plasma that researchers call a “magnetic island.” Magnetic islands can cause complex plasma disruptions capable of shutting down fusion experiments and even damaging reactors.

The researchers found that by bombarding plasma with radio-frequency waves while creating small fluctuations in its temperature, they could stabilize the material and prevent the dangerous magnetic islands from forming.


Not trying to go off-topic, but would any of the math or physics here be applicable towards combustion instabilities in giant rocket combustion chambers? After all, even combustion chambers have a whole lot of plasma inside there.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2969 on: 01/15/2019 11:59 pm »
TAE Technologies (formerly Tri Alpha Energy) is aiming to achieve break even (with D+T) in 2 years from now.
I hope they can make it happen. Once one team achieves break even, the stigma of "fusion will always be 30 years away" will be broken and fusion research will finally get adequate funding.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/01/14/private-firm-will-bring-fusion-reactor-to-market-within-five-years-ceo-says/?fbclid=IwAR004y_B-Glv32WeR7im2VfZZrRHpBlDuJJwgHgyMgmeVgQm3btpx2tbqV0#4bd9e8ad1d4a

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2970 on: 01/16/2019 12:16 am »
TAE Technologies (formerly Tri Alpha Energy) is aiming to achieve break even (with D+T) in 2 years from now.
I hope they can make it happen. Once one team achieves break even, the stigma of "fusion will always be 30 years away" will be broken and fusion research will finally get adequate funding.

It will be remarkable if it works, not only to prove humans have the ability to generate energy from fusion reactions, but the size of their reactor is sufficiently small enough that it could fit in an existing launcher payload fairing. I think we could all imagine a lot of uses for such a small reactor in space.

Unfortunately it using Boron-11, and not Dilithium crystals...   ;)
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline tyrred

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2971 on: 01/16/2019 07:18 am »
TAE Technologies (formerly Tri Alpha Energy) is aiming to achieve break even (with D+T) in 2 years from now.
I hope they can make it happen. Once one team achieves break even, the stigma of "fusion will always be 30 years away" will be broken and fusion research will finally get adequate funding.

It will be remarkable if it works, not only to prove humans have the ability to generate energy from fusion reactions, but the size of their reactor is sufficiently small enough that it could fit in an existing launcher payload fairing. I think we could all imagine a lot of uses for such a small reactor in space.

Unfortunately it using Boron-11, and not Dilithium crystals...   ;)

But is Dilithium crystal fusion aneutronic?  Never watched enough StarTrek to find out...
P+B11 fusion is the goal, D+T is the path to break-even reportedly. 

Offline rdheld

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2972 on: 01/16/2019 10:58 am »
Dilithium only focused antimatter-matter reactions.  there were separate fusion reactors for impulse engines

Offline Cinder

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2973 on: 01/16/2019 11:07 am »
TAE Technologies (formerly Tri Alpha Energy) is aiming to achieve break even (with D+T) in 2 years from now.
I hope they can make it happen. Once one team achieves break even, the stigma of "fusion will always be 30 years away" will be broken and fusion research will finally get adequate funding.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2019/01/14/private-firm-will-bring-fusion-reactor-to-market-within-five-years-ceo-says/?fbclid=IwAR004y_B-Glv32WeR7im2VfZZrRHpBlDuJJwgHgyMgmeVgQm3btpx2tbqV0#4bd9e8ad1d4a
Are those old travel time projections for the Polywell powered spacecraft, e.g. to Saturn in about 2 months, still within projections ?  IIRC the ballparks premised in the old Askmar papers were on the order of 10B$ for this range of vehicles.  Which is not as much as you'd expect for the jump in performance, compared to something already at the leading edge like the latest BFS iterations.  The vehicles were in the same ballpark as the current iteration for the BFS, IIRC.

edit- here's one of those papers for reference.
http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/From%20SSTO%20to%20Saturns%20Moons.pdf
« Last Edit: 01/16/2019 11:07 am by Cinder »
NEC ULTIMA SI PRIOR

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2974 on: 01/18/2019 04:04 am »
So it seems like Michl Binderbauer was misquoted and that it will be more like 2024 for TAE to reach break even. Will still be relatively soon. We will see how things go.
For actual fusion engines, I think that something based on the Sheared Flow Stabilized Z- Pinch has the most potential, followed by PPPL's PFRC and MSNW's Fusion Driven Rocket. Shumlak's Z- Pinch has made great strides in recent years and they have received 6.8 million USD in additional funding from ARPA-E, making that the (currently) best funded of the 3. We will see how things go, but I believe that the next 5 to 6 years will be very interesting.

Offline Cinder

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2975 on: 01/18/2019 06:05 am »
Hopefully so.  I vaguely remember the same thing being said roughly that many years ago, about a slightly different crop of projects.  EMC2 was one of those then, and today isn't even mentioned (?).
NEC ULTIMA SI PRIOR

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2976 on: 01/18/2019 02:44 pm »
Hopefully so.  I vaguely remember the same thing being said roughly that many years ago, about a slightly different crop of projects.  EMC2 was one of those then, and today isn't even mentioned (?).
EMC2 is looking for funding. Problem is with these forward looking statements that these always assume _adequate_ funding. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2977 on: 01/18/2019 09:57 pm »
Congrats to Princeton Satellite Systems (and Princeton Fusion Systems) and Sam Cohen of PPPL for getting a 1.25 million USD award from ARPA-E! ARPA-E really has been wonderful for all the smaller fusion projects in the US.
http://www.psatellite.com/arpa-e-award-for-compact-nuclear-fusion-power/
« Last Edit: 01/18/2019 10:15 pm by Elmar Moelzer »

Offline aceshigh

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2978 on: 01/22/2019 08:25 pm »
If TAE Technologies Succeeds With Commercial Fusion Then a Fusion Rocket Will Follow

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/01/if-tae-technologies-succeeds-with-commercial-fusion-then-a-fusion-rocket-will-follow.html

"The 2004 paper would need to be updated for the potential 400 MW long duration power reactor that TAE Technologies plans to build."

"A 350 MWe nuclear fusion drive that could run with net energy and operate for years would likely mean propulsion that could achieve 1-5% of the speed of light."

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: Fusion with space related aspects thread
« Reply #2979 on: 01/23/2019 05:09 am »
I think that something like PPPL's Direct Fusion Drive, or Uri Shumlak's Sheared Flow Stabilized Z- Pinch could be better (provided they work as predicted). They are a lot more compact (especially the Z- Pinch) and relatively low mass. I believe that a Sheared Flow Stabilized Z- Pinch could enable SSTO.

 

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