SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 5)

[oiorionsbelt]

Does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.spacevidcast.com/2011/05/23/a-tour-of-space-launch-complex-40-spacepod-2011-05-23/

The Liquid Oxygen (LOX) tank is another example of the company’s ability to cut cost. The tank was purchased for one dollar over the cost of scrap value. But the efficiency doesn’t stop there. It turned out that the flame trench needed to reduce the risk of damage to the rocket due to acoustic vibration was too short. One estimate from a traditional source put the cost to refurbish the site in the millions of dollars. SpaceX consulted a young engineer who created a more efficient method – for $65,000.

Well yes.  I think that any cost-conscious company does this sort of thing.  It's not a SpaceX unique capability.  Alternatives exploration and analyses is just part of business.

I was wondering if the "car wash" (steel skeleton) was the $65,000
 'solution' to...... "It turned out that the flame trench needed to reduce the risk of damage to the rocket due to acoustic vibration was too short."

 So they, SpaceX, added the "car wash" to the flame trench at SLC 40 for accoustic considerations to the F9?

[Jim]

yes

[Jim]

Unless you have a government cost-plus contract.

I truly believe (my opinion so don't beat me up) that this is what makes SpaceX so interesting. They try to save money so they can keep building - the establishment only builds if they are getting paid (at a stock holder acceptable profit margin).  And yes, I'm generalizing.

Who is the establishment?  Yes, you are generalizing.  Spacex is not unique.
ULA does not have cost plus contracts.

[oiorionsbelt]

yes

Made my day.

[darkenfast]

That "white room" looks like it has doors and airconditioners that function when the rocket is in a horizontal position only. Am I correct in assuming that this is from the late payload loading test?  I'm as curious as anybody to see what the plans are for crewed Dragon, but I have a feeling that it's going to be a new structure at a different angle to the pad that will allow access to the spacecraft before and after fuelling, plus some sort of rapid escape.

[Jason1701]

Is rapid escape essential? Did other manned spacecraft use the same system as Shuttle?

[tigerade]

yes

This moment shall be recorded in history.

Not COTS2/3, but Jim saying "yes" instead of "no". 

kidding.  Yes I think that COTS2/3 is going to be a big flight this year and will likely receive nationwide attention.  How much attention is yet to be seen.

[Antares]

Unless you have a government cost-plus contract.

I truly believe (my opinion so don't beat me up) that this is what makes SpaceX so interesting. They try to save money so they can keep building - the establishment only builds if they are getting paid (at a stock holder acceptable profit margin).  And yes, I'm generalizing.

Who is the establishment?  Yes, you are generalizing.  Spacex is not unique.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt that it's the corporate parents of ULA and the other contractors that are being referenced.

ULA does not have cost plus contracts.

ELC?

[Jim]

Is rapid escape essential? Did other manned spacecraft use the same system as Shuttle?

yes

[manboy]

Is rapid escape essential? Did other manned spacecraft use the same system as Shuttle?

yes

I wasn't aware that other LVs had the basket system.

[Blackjax]

yes

This moment shall be recorded in history.

Not COTS2/3, but Jim saying "yes" instead of "no". 

kidding.  Yes I think that COTS2/3 is going to be a big flight this year and will likely receive nationwide attention.  How much attention is yet to be seen.

Don't be silly, someone, somewhere, at some point in time must have asked the (probably intended to be rhetorical) question:

"Am I wrong?"

[corrodedNut]

Here's another photo from the crew trial:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=58575

[gregpet]

Unless you have a government cost-plus contract.

I truly believe (my opinion so don't beat me up) that this is what makes SpaceX so interesting. They try to save money so they can keep building - the establishment only builds if they are getting paid (at a stock holder acceptable profit margin).  And yes, I'm generalizing.

Who is the establishment?  Yes, you are generalizing.  Spacex is not unique.
ULA does not have cost plus contracts.

I'll go with The Space Review's definition:
...then why does NASA operate the majority of its contracting on a cost-plus basis? Is it unfair to ask Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and other companies to bid for Constellation-type work on a fixed-price contracting basis?

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1288/1

[mmeijeri]

ULA does not have cost plus contracts.

Don't they have a fixed price based on historical costs plus a markup? Not the same as cost plus, but still with a cost plus element.

[Jim]

I'll go with The Space Review's definition:
...then why does NASA operate the majority of its contracting on a cost-plus basis? Is it unfair to ask Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and other companies to bid for Constellation-type work on a fixed-price contracting basis?

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1288/1

Still not applicable.  It is NASA who determines what and how they want to contract for something.  It was NASA who chose cost plus; it is NASA with their requirement changes and hands on approach to Constellation that required it.  NASA would have been operating Constellation.   It is not to be compared to what Spacex is supplying.  Spacex is only providing two specific tasks for NASA;  Launch vehicle and spacecraft date for COTS and cargo for CRS. 

Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and other companies do build spacecraft for fixed prices.

[simonbp]

I wasn't aware that other LVs had the basket system.

It was invented for Saturn V, and Shuttle inherited it. Mercury would have just used the escape rocket, and Gemini the ejection seats. So, the plan for Dragon is likely to just do a pad abort.

[kevin-rf]

So, the plan for Dragon is likely to just do a pad abort.

Nah, they should install a waterslide

[apace]

So, the plan for Dragon is likely to just do a pad abort.

Nah, they should install a waterslide

Or use a Tesla Coupe, enough space for 7 ;-)

[kevin-rf]

So, the plan for Dragon is likely to just do a pad abort.

Nah, they should install a waterslide

Or use a Tesla Coupe, enough space for 7 ;-)

Then you will end up with 7 tourists asking if we are their yet?

[mr. mark]

December 15 - Dragon CRS2/CUSat 1&2/Lunar Orbiter&Lander CubeSat/SwampSat/Black Night 1/IPEX/SPA-1 Trailblazer/TetherSat/TJSat/DragonSat 1/Copper-Cube/PhoneSat 2.0 - Falcon 9 - Canaveral SLC-40

Curious about the December 15th, 2012 launch. Interesting payloads including Lunar orbital and lander CubeSat.