SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 5)

[mr. mark]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

[Jim]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

don't think so. 

[apace]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

I'm confused. From the photos it looks like this "white room" is not connected to the strong-back, so it's useful only, if the rocket is horizontal. But if the rocket is horizontal, they can also drive back to the processing building... so what's the idea of having such a "white room" on the ground?

[Robotbeat]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

I'm confused. From the photos it looks like this "white room" is not connected to the strong-back, so it's useful only, if the rocket is horizontal. But if the rocket is horizontal, they can also drive back to the processing building... so what's the idea of having such a "white room" on the ground?

Good question! Is it possible that it IS attached to the strong-back?

Also, I suspect that SpaceX would build a different (and bigger, stronger) white room and strongback for crew. If you already know how to build something, "adapting" something which isn't terribly optimized for the task doesn't save you either time or money.

[mr. mark]

I'm thinking as of now it is not attached. If you look at the original erector, it's support structure does not run underneath the white room. It would not have enough support to hold it in place. Does not mean that it couldn't in the future though.

[DaveH62]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

I'm confused. From the photos it looks like this "white room" is not connected to the strong-back, so it's useful only, if the rocket is horizontal. But if the rocket is horizontal, they can also drive back to the processing building... so what's the idea of having such a "white room" on the ground?

Good question! Is it possible that it IS attached to the strong-back?

Also, I suspect that SpaceX would build a different (and bigger, stronger) white room and strongback for crew. If you already know how to build something, "adapting" something which isn't terribly optimized for the task doesn't save you either time or money.

Maybe if it mounts onto the strongback they can have a white room built for different configurations? Faring, Dragon, Dragon Crew configurations without rebuilding the strongback?

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

I'm wondering how the new white room on the Falcon 9 erector could be adapted for later use in manned flight.

I'm confused. From the photos it looks like this "white room" is not connected to the strong-back, so it's useful only, if the rocket is horizontal. But if the rocket is horizontal, they can also drive back to the processing building... so what's the idea of having such a "white room" on the ground?

Good question! Is it possible that it IS attached to the strong-back?

Also, I suspect that SpaceX would build a different (and bigger, stronger) white room and strongback for crew. If you already know how to build something, "adapting" something which isn't terribly optimized for the task doesn't save you either time or money.

This trailer is attached to the strongback using something similar to how the ball attachments for a trailer hitch are attached to a SUV or truck. When it is occupied there are manually lowered feet to stabalize the room so it can be occupied. All of this is visible in the first of the two new photos.

This arrangement also means that a different room for use with the 5m faring could be attached when that configuration is flown. Instead of complete erectors for each configuartion the payload support module is changeable.

[Jim]

I'm confused. From the photos it looks like this "white room" is not connected to the strong-back, so it's useful only, if the rocket is horizontal. But if the rocket is horizontal, they can also drive back to the processing building... so what's the idea of having such a "white room" on the ground?

 ISS has experiments and hardware (such as freezer, coolers, animal/plant containers, etc) that require continuous power from the time they leave the lab.  This is during all phases, transport from lab, installation into Dragon, countdown, launch, flight, etc, until the experiment is removed from the Dragon and installed in the ISS.
The Dragon and Falcon 9 are not powered during the roll to the pad.  Once the vehicle is rolled to the pad, utilities can be hooked up and power provide to the Dragon.  The Dragon, in turn, can power the experiments

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

On further examination this room seems to be attached to the undercarraige and not the strongback. This would allow for quick rollback and disconnect from the stronback since all that would be required after errection would be for the feet to be raised prior to the cairrage to be rolled back to the HIF including this room.

[oiorionsbelt]

In this picture
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=58581&mr=s&w=770&h=528&fn=2012-1621&sn=KSC-2012-1621
is the steel skeleton at the end of the flame deflector trench new. If so why is it there?

[Lars_J]

In this picture
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=58581&mr=s&w=770&h=528&fn=2012-1621&sn=KSC-2012-1621
is the steel skeleton at the end of the flame deflector trench new. If so why is it there?

No, that steel skeleton is not new. You can see the top of it behind the F9 in this static fire test from 2010:

http://www.collectspace.com/review/spacex_f934-lg.jpg

[corrodedNut]

They call it "the carwash"; for acoustic suppression.

[oiorionsbelt]

Thanks, I haven't asked a lot of questions in my 6 years here but you are all so quick and informative with the replies. Yay NSF!

[oiorionsbelt]

They call it "the carwash"; for acoustic suppression.

Water is added here?

[oiorionsbelt]

In this picture
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/imageviewer.cfm?mediaid=58581&mr=s&w=770&h=528&fn=2012-1621&sn=KSC-2012-1621
is the steel skeleton at the end of the flame deflector trench new. If so why is it there?

No, that steel skeleton is not new. You can see the top of it behind the F9 in this static fire test from 2010:

http://www.collectspace.com/review/spacex_f934-lg.jpg

When you say "not new" was it there for Titan?

[Jim]

When you say "not new" was it there for Titan?

No, and Atlas V has a similar system

[corrodedNut]

They call it "the carwash"; for acoustic suppression.

Water is added here?

It sprays a curtain of water on exhaust products exiting the flame trench.

[oiorionsbelt]

Does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.spacevidcast.com/2011/05/23/a-tour-of-space-launch-complex-40-spacepod-2011-05-23/

The Liquid Oxygen (LOX) tank is another example of the company’s ability to cut cost. The tank was purchased for one dollar over the cost of scrap value. But the efficiency doesn’t stop there. It turned out that the flame trench needed to reduce the risk of damage to the rocket due to acoustic vibration was too short. One estimate from a traditional source put the cost to refurbish the site in the millions of dollars. SpaceX consulted a young engineer who created a more efficient method – for $65,000.

[beancounter]

Does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.spacevidcast.com/2011/05/23/a-tour-of-space-launch-complex-40-spacepod-2011-05-23/

The Liquid Oxygen (LOX) tank is another example of the company’s ability to cut cost. The tank was purchased for one dollar over the cost of scrap value. But the efficiency doesn’t stop there. It turned out that the flame trench needed to reduce the risk of damage to the rocket due to acoustic vibration was too short. One estimate from a traditional source put the cost to refurbish the site in the millions of dollars. SpaceX consulted a young engineer who created a more efficient method – for $65,000.

Well yes.  I think that any cost-conscious company does this sort of thing.  It's not a SpaceX unique capability.  Alternatives exploration and analyses is just part of business.

[gregpet]

Does this have anything to do with it?

http://www.spacevidcast.com/2011/05/23/a-tour-of-space-launch-complex-40-spacepod-2011-05-23/

The Liquid Oxygen (LOX) tank is another example of the company’s ability to cut cost. The tank was purchased for one dollar over the cost of scrap value. But the efficiency doesn’t stop there. It turned out that the flame trench needed to reduce the risk of damage to the rocket due to acoustic vibration was too short. One estimate from a traditional source put the cost to refurbish the site in the millions of dollars. SpaceX consulted a young engineer who created a more efficient method – for $65,000.

Well yes.  I think that any cost-conscious company does this sort of thing.  It's not a SpaceX unique capability.  Alternatives exploration and analyses is just part of business.

Unless you have a government cost-plus contract.

I truly believe (my opinion so don't beat me up) that this is what makes SpaceX so interesting. They try to save money so they can keep building - the establishment only builds if they are getting paid (at a stock holder acceptable profit margin).  And yes, I'm generalizing.